Buffy/Angel fans

Reading the threads around here, I've realized that there are a lot of BTVS/Angel fans on the ABY. So I'm going to ask a question that's been on my mind for a while:
What are everyone's Buffyverse ships? (Wow, Fluff, surprise there that you jumped right to the shippy fangirl question!)
Personally, my main ship in Buffy/Angel. I am ridiculously squeeful over them. Never buy me a shirt that says "I ship B/A, ask me how" because one day someone will ask and the world will come to an end as I'm talking about them.
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Gosh, I can stop a conversation.
So, share your ships, your favorite Buffy or Angel moments, characters and seasons, blah blah blah, happyfuncakes!!!
(Hope my complete insanity didn't show too much)

yay, finally, a buffy/angel thread! great idea, fluff!

of course, buffy and angel!! i really like spike, don't get me wrong, and i thought the whole "spangel" thing was pretty hot too.. but buffy and angel just broke my heart. when he left in the end of season3, i didn't think i'd ever get over it! (okay, i was like 17 or so.. )

and what really really bothered me was angel and cordelia. yuck. just thinking about them makes me wanna barf.

Buffy/Angel, of course! No Spike, (though I freakin' loved him, but he was NOT for Buffy), no Cordy...like lena, that whole thing makes me want to hurl.

Oh, and I also loved Willow and Oz...they rocked. And I love Faith...and if you read my angel fic, I get her together with Spike...lol. They should have done that in the series...

lena152 wrote:yay, finally, a buffy/angel thread! great idea, fluff!

of course, buffy and angel!! i really like spike, don't get me wrong, and i thought the whole "spangel" thing was pretty hot too.. but buffy and angel just broke my heart. when he left in the end of season3, i didn't think i'd ever get over it! (okay, i was like 17 or so.. )

and what really really bothered me was angel and cordelia. yuck. just thinking about them makes me wanna barf.

We are sooooooooo in agreement! Spike is hilarious, but the Spike and Buffy thing in S6 was just awful and created this horrible misrepresentation for a lot of people. There are still girls who see the attempted rape scene in Seeing Red and go "look how much he wants to be with her! He's nuts about her!" No, he's just NUTS and you're nuts for approving of a ship that's all about violence and pain. (That smiley looks too happy)
On Angel and Cordelia, I must go barf as well. It was completely contrived and ridiculous and if the characters ran their own lives, it would never have happened! (Now I just sound like a nutjob, but whatever)

flyersfan35 wrote:Oh, and I also loved Willow and Oz...they rocked. And I love Faith...and if you read my angel fic, I get her together with Spike...lol. They should have done that in the series...

I am constantly torn between Willow/Oz and Willow/Tara. I think they're both adorable and I just can't decide!
I also think Faith could be good with Spike. And I really love reading cute Faith and Angel brother-sister stuff. They can be darn adorable for two supernatural killer type people.

Fluffernutter wrote:

lena152 wrote:yay, finally, a buffy/angel thread! great idea, fluff!

of course, buffy and angel!! i really like spike, don't get me wrong, and i thought the whole "spangel" thing was pretty hot too.. but buffy and angel just broke my heart. when he left in the end of season3, i didn't think i'd ever get over it! (okay, i was like 17 or so.. )

and what really really bothered me was angel and cordelia. yuck. just thinking about them makes me wanna barf.

We are sooooooooo in agreement! Spike is hilarious, but the Spike and Buffy thing in S6 was just awful and created this horrible misrepresentation for a lot of people. There are still girls who see the attempted rape scene in Seeing Red and go "look how much he wants to be with her! He's nuts about her!" No, he's just NUTS and you're nuts for approving of a ship that's all about violence and pain. (That smiley looks too happy)
On Angel and Cordelia, I must go barf as well. It was completely contrived and ridiculous and if the characters ran their own lives, it would never have happened! (Now I just sound like a nutjob, but whatever)

oh my god, yes, that almost-rape scene was definitely one of the most horrifying things i've ever seen on a tv show. joss whedon loves that, doesn't he!? breaking the "laws of tv", like when he had buffy's mom die. that was devastating, too.

i don't know, there's so much to discuss about that scene and their relationship.. (don't think i'm nuts, i do realize it's tv , so that being said...) it was incredibly disturbing, absolutely.. but somehow i can also see the whole scene from spike's point of view.. she is normally a lot stronger than him. so normally there is no way he could ever make her do anything she doesn't want. this is not the typical strong male, weak female picture. and they obviously are into pretty rough sex normally. so i don't see this whole scene as proof of how evil he is. from his perspective, the way he acts makes perfect sense. did i make any sense? i absolutely do not see it as proof of "how much he wants to be with her", god, no. that's just sick.

anyway, what i don't get is why this turn of events was ever written. i do like the dark, more adult tone of seasons 6 and 7. but that was just really really tough to digest. the normally superstrong buffy being victimized like any other female could be any day, spike, a character you just couldn't ever see hurting buffy, ever, doing something like that. i don't know. they could have come up with some other reason for him to go get a soul. her rejection as it was should have been enough.


oh yeah.. and angel and cordelia, that was just wrong. of course, cordelia got a lot more likeable on "angel". and i really loved them as buddys and co-workers, whatever. but as a romantic couple!? pleeeease!?? ridiculous! there was no chemistry whatsoever between those two! none!! zero! nada! niente! rien! null!!!!

wow, looking at my message, am i getting scary emotional about those shows or what!? haha. excuse my rambling! and don't think i'm crazy!

I was always for Buffy/Angel and I liked Willow/Oz too. I really hated it when they had Willow cheat on Oz with Xander while he was dating Cordy. That wasn't a fine moment. I haven't finished watching the whole BTVS series (I'm only on S4 and s2 of Angel ) I liked the Angel/Cordy family/friends/coworkers thing but never as a couple. I also want to barf when I hear about Buffy/Spike and Buffy/Reily or whatever his name was

oh, riley. totally forgot him. you can skip seasons 4 and 5!

lena152 wrote:wow, looking at my message, am i getting scary emotional about those shows or what!? haha. excuse my rambling! and don't think i'm crazy!

Oh, if I thought you were crazy, I'd be the blackest kind of pot. I rant to people who don't even know what I'm TALKING about.
Honestly, I can accept the darkness of the B/S relationship. I don't like it and I wish there had been different creative decisions after S5 (nix the gift and re-meld with Angel; sadly that only happens in fanficland) but I can understand the wish to break the mold. What I can't stand is:
a. fans who think that the AR scene is okay. It is very very NOT okay. Buffy is a character who was created to empower women and girls. By approving of a relationship that is not only brutal by consent but which includes unwilling brutality, people are sanctioning real life situations like that. It makes me sad and a little sick.
b. the writers who say that the B/S relationship is better than the B/A relationship. This is not because I'm a shipper. This is because the two head female writers of the show should not take so much pleasure in writing Spike dominating Buffy dirty scenes. Marti Noxon disliked B/A- she thought they were boring and couldn't go anywhere after S3. But she and Jane Espenson were big supporters of Spuffy. I have to thank the universe for David Fury. This quote of his makes my life every time I read it:
Q: There has been a lot of speculation regarding the Buffy/Spike dynamic in "Crush." One camp believes the S/B arc is an allegory for violence against women; stalking, obsession, threats...the other camp believes Spike is a changed man, and that Buffy is a "bitch" for not giving him a break. Where do you stand on these interpretations?
David Fury: Let's see... Who should I piss off first? Buffy IS a bitch for not giving Spike a break. I mean, what did he ever do to her, but try to KILL her and her friends countless times... team up with Adam to DESTROY HUMANITY... show up at her house with a LOADED SHOTGUN intending to blow her brains out... break into her bedroom to STEAL HER UNDERWEAR... KIDNAP HER, CHAIN HER TO A WALL and threaten to CUT HER UP, BURN HER... Who wouldn't want a guy like that? He's not a "changed man." He is a character full of contradictions and levels and dimensions and other words I can't think of, just like real people (a subject I, admittedly, know nothing about). But, ultimately, he is a demon, evil at the core and selfishly motivated. His "chip" affliction has domesticated him, somewhat, forced him to consider consequences for his actions, and afforded him the opportunity to show something resembling a conscience. Is that redemption? Should Buffy fall in love with a guy who has no moral qualms about killing innocent people if given the chance again? Do you think I'm stupid enough to answer those questions here? And as for the Angel comparison, he can't be held accountable for the actions of Angelus, any more than William can be held accountable for the actions of Spike. But Spike can be held accountable for the actions of Spike because he's Spike and not William, the same way Angel's Angel and not Angelus, unless he's something entirely diff......SOMEBODY STOP ME!"

I'm gonna stop ranting now. I really am.

lena152 wrote:oh, riley. totally forgot him. you can skip seasons 4 and 5!

Oh oh wait! Watch The Body cause it's really really heartbreakingly good, and Forever cause it's got a little taste of B/A!!
But 4 you can skip entirely. I did...except for one scene with Buffy and Angel in The Yoko Factor (sensing a pattern here?)

Oh, Lena, one other point:
I don't think that Spike got his soul on purpose. Maybe the writers meant it to be that way, but the way it was played by James Marsters, Spike gets unhinged and wants the chip out. (quotes from buffyworld.com transcripts. Yay for obsession!)

CLEM: Hey. Come on now, Mr. Negative. You never know what's just around the corner. Things change.
SPIKE: Yeah, they do.
Spike gives a bitter sarcastic laugh. Clem looks at him, kind of helpless.
Then something occurs to Spike. His grin turns nasty.
SPIKE: If you make them.

SPIKE: Get nice and comfy, Slayer. I'll be back. And when I do ... things are gonna change.
He tosses his cigarette onto the ground and rides off.

SPIKE: (nods, barely concealed anger) Thinks she's better than me. Ever since I got this bleeding chip in my head, things ain't been right. Everything's gone to hell.
DEMON: And you want to return to your former self.
SPIKE: Yeah.
Close on the green glowing eyes as the demon laughs evilly.
SPIKE: What?
DEMON: Look what she's reduced you to.
SPIKE: It's this bloody chip-
DEMON: You were a legendary dark warrior, and you let yourself be castrated. (Spike looking angry)
...
SPIKE: Bitch is gonna see a change.

I don't know where the change=Spike wants a soul thing came from. I think of it as a prime example of rewritten canon. I think Spike (rightly) accuses the chip of stirring some human emotions in him. I think he had them from the beginning. Remember how the Judge said that he and Dru had human emotions like jealousy and love? But they're demon human emotions; it's not the same thing.
STOPPING RANT! MUST DO WORK!!!!

Fluffernutter wrote:

lena152 wrote:oh, riley. totally forgot him. you can skip seasons 4 and 5!

Oh oh wait! Watch The Body cause it's really really heartbreakingly good, and Forever cause it's got a little taste of B/A!!
But 4 you can skip entirely. I did...except for one scene with Buffy and Angel in The Yoko Factor (sensing a pattern here?)

Hehe...I watched all of season 4 to give it a chance, but the only ones I watched after were the ones with Angel in it...lol

I have seriously got to get those Angel DVDs I keep seeing everytime I walk in the store. I need the money first though.

But in all honesty...Buffy/Angel. Just....they were probably the first couple I ever officially shipped. I loved them, and still do. Maybe it's that 'forbidden' love type of thing, but I loved the way they were written, the way they brought out things in each other.

I liked Spike as his own character, but yeah...never really liked him and Buffy together either.

...And now I really feel like going and watching a bunch of fanvids and loading up on fanfic.