Re: The Future of Bones?

by DripPan on Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:42 am

I always broke up the seasons as follows:

Season 1 is where she found friendship.
Season 2 is where she got love. Her dad coming back, Sully and the whole more than one type of family.
Season 3 is where she gave love. Her dad's trial, Baby Andy and Wannebe/PitH
Season 4 is where she learned the meaning of being special.
Season 5 is her discovery of 'deeper emotional connection'.

Drippy

by heirofloki on Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:54 am

THX1138 wrote:
The man talked a good game in negotiations with TheWB but when push came to shove he didn't shove back, he picked up his toys and went home. If it wasn't for UPN needing a show of Buffy's caliber to bolster their image BtVS would have ended at five seasons. Likewise he sought out and received unprecedented guarantees of creative control from FOX when it came to Firefly, but that did him no good when they started messing about with the show. In the end they did what they wanted and Joss, once again, picked up his toys and retreated. Honestly I don't think Fox would have kept Dollhouse on as long as it had except they learned from experience what a mistake they made with Firefly - it had nothing to do with Joss.
RM

Actually, he's notorious for pushing to the breaking point. You assume that leaving a network or moving on is a sign of weakness, when in this industry is more like saying "FU! Do what you will, off I go". He's even recognized that when studios asks for serialized, less intractable scripts he goes, "well, no". It's the thing I've learned to love and hate about him (and the reason I cringe whenever he's about to open his mouth). The man is a genius, but if anyone has an ego...lol. I'm gonna stop now.

by Thnx4theGum on Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:09 am

THX1138 wrote:Wow Gum, you had a lot to say.

*blushes* Um yeah, I kinda got on a roll there.

I think it's clear from the interaction between Booth and Brennan in S3 that they were on a collision course to get together. I imagine HH planned on them becoming something of a couple just before Wannabe, because that was a very, very couple-y episode and with a little tweaking it would have been easy to see Booth and Brennan new to a relationship that they haven't admitted to the FBI (Sweets), still getting used to being a couple, when "BANG" Booth gets shot, PitH happens, and Brennan's trust in Booth is shattered. Taken in that context S4 makes much, much more sense and it explains Brennan's almost schizophrenic personality. I actually made the argument that Booth's increasingly boorish an erratic behaviour in S4 was due to the increasing intercranial pressure of the tumor.

You know, that makes a lot of sense... If there's one major complaint I had for season 4 it was Brennan's "schizophrenic" behavior as you put it. And Booth was downright asinine at times.

The strike and FOX's handling of it were horrible for the show, there's just no arguing that point IMO, but HH did the best he could do moving the show along and keeping some sort of cohesion, as well as handling the horribly botched Gormagon story line. (To be clear, the arc was botched by the strike, not HH).

I concur. Vehemently.

I'm in the minority of the people who actually love PithH, enjoyed the flippin' surprise that it was Zack and not Sweets (whom I maintain is a much, much better fit for the apprentice, right down to being abused as a child.) Oh, and I freakin' love that analogy!

Thanks

Ah, PithH was back in the days when I still cared about [H]ouse and the double whammy of those two finales had me reeling for the rest of the week! I also remember my students at the time were buzzing and we spent a good portion of one class period discussing the merits of both shows.(I'm a sub; sue me)

Right after they accused Sweets I knew it wasn't him b/c it was too early in the story and I was fairly sure it wasn't Hodgins too. I was as blindsided as Cam(ah, the spoiler free days) but LOVED the finale!!! ED's nose-to-nose with EM STILL causes pain in my heart to this day and is one of my favorite acting moments from her b/c it's so real. Though honest Injun' when I rewatch now, I'm more into the Uniformed Booth followed closely by Nekkid Booth... I too am refreshed by his lack of Puritan modesty in that moment. Twisted Evil

We are 100% in agreement. Booth and Brennan have so many issues they need to resolve that resolving the UST is a drop in the damn bucket for them. I've ghosted an entire S6 without UST and seen absolutely no problem keeping Real Life Tension (RLT) and Angst levels elevated to the point that their relationship would be the only anchor point both would have for most of the year. If I can do it I'm sure HH can.

That's the thing, isn't it? We have these two rich characters who go so deep beyond the TV norms that the possibilities are endless and one would think blind monkeys and their typewriters could figure out all that couply B&B could be. Domesticated Brennan is such an oxy-moron it makes me giddy, and once Pops told Brennan to hold Booth, well, yeah, I could build half a season just on THAT.

Yes, starting with DTitPH they really started pushing the light romantic comedy angle on the show and honestly, it sucked ass. Bones isn't a romantic comedy kind of show, and I've enjoyed a return to the darker episodes this season (even though the overall tone remains somewhat lighter than S1-S3). I think Toughman was the only borderline episode so far this season, and there was enough angst to keep it grounded. Among Season Four episodes, DDotDD is the worst thing I've ever seen - it's just not Bones material. It's so bad, I've excise it from my memory.

Don't hate me, I sneak in DDotDD when I need to laugh. Booth is such a husband at the beginning, keeping Brennan in line and coming up with "translation" (which I admit might be b/c of that BS I have in Bible [shut up, it's real and we all caught the irony] and knew the Hebrew meaning of "translation") And the hand gesture for sex makes me giggle too.
That being said, I never need another Bones like it and if DB never dances and/or sings drunk again I won't shed a tear. We are in agreement that Bones isn't romantic comedy.

I think that's a valid point however, I'd say that about a third of S4 is outstanding, and episodes like ConMan and Girl are among my favorites of the entire series, a third were good, solid TV, and a third were marginal, even bad, and there was no rhyme nor reason to the placement (though later episodes tended to be weaker) so I'm not surprised that the show gained and held viewership in S4 - it started out strong with carry over from S3, it stayed in place on Thursday (and as rough a slot as that is, it's a lot rougher to keep getting moved around), and again, if you tune in and see an episode like ConMan, tell me you're not pumped to watch the next two or three weeks of the show? I'd say that HH got lucky with S4, in that he had enough exceptional episodes to compensate for the bad decision to go 'romantic crimedy' late in the season.

Yeah. I've been rewatching and ConMan still blows me out of the water. It was like they had just enough good to compensate; plus, as you and Drippy have said, we have the best leads on TV.

<snip>Worse, it angered much of the fan base it was aimed at because a lot of folks like myself and Moonlightbones, were more than a little disheartened. I came back at the start of S5 ready for the worst and if they'd played it differently, if they'd said "Hey, let's keep that whole romantic crimedy thing going, it was so much fun!" and that'd been what we had? I wouldn't be writing InkSlinger's because I wouldn't be watching. Instead S5 has turned out to be an interesting, and largely well written, ably directed season so far, and it's a big part of why I've become less reflexively hostile toward HH, he's done well in restoring my faith that he has a plan, even if it's not one I like, at least there's one in place.

You've gotta hand it to him that he and the writers have done good in the damage control section thus far and hit the right notes right off the bat. I really don't know what more they could've given us for an opener and the flow has been so much better! More gems than stones works for me.

Absolutely - when I started missing CSI because I no longer cared (they waited too long to get Grissom and Sarah together...hey, that sounds familiar). By then I was already heavily invested in Bones and I have been ever since.

Funny story. I was a huge CSI fan for a LONG time so when hubby saw the preview for Bones during his football he told me I should catch the pilot b/c it looked right up my alley. I did and for a while I watched both. By season 2 I was all Bones and I've never looked back. Grissom/Sarah was beyond botched but if Tarentino ever offered to guest write/direct for Bones I would never complain...

First, I appreciate him not just putting himself out on Twitter, but staying there and using the tool like the rest of us. Second, I find it the height of bad taste for anyone to take him to task like that in a public forum, write a letter, post an article here (like I do), but tweeting crap at someone who's doing their job? That's just low class.

Yes. Low class. I spend far too much time on Twitter, but I really like how accessible HH has made himself and what a great reminder it is that he puts his pants on one leg at a time like the rest of us- and has car/motorcycle problems too. The internet age is very interesting b/c we're all "closer" and yet there are times that propriety/decency is lost in the shuffle too.

Side note: I would love to play Scrabble with both Hart and Stephen!! It's been years since anyone agreed to play- keeping score- with me. I think it has something to do with my penchant for landing seven-letter words on triple-word score spots...oh, and my go-for-the-jugular-even-after-they-bled-out competetive streak. Even if I got my butt handed to me, I would love it!

Saying FOX is handsy is like saying the ocean's big and wet. They're notorious for screwing with (around and up) TV series because for some reason each and every FOX programming exec thinks they're God's gift to any series they touch - which is funny because their track record stinks on ice. That said, I think S5 is a gift to HH for doing the yeoman's work of putting together a 25/26 episode season in S4 an letting them jerk the back half of his schedule around willy nilly. My only question is, will they continue to give him his head or will they try and reign him in?

In my snarkier moments I call Fox the Octopus network...though at times they rival the Kraken too. I think HH has this tightrope to walk where he's got people's jobs riding on just how much "give" he allows the network. I think he's figured out the balance and so far it's worked. We'll see how long he's able to pacify them.

Well you know I'm a huge fan of Booth 2.0, but far from giving us things he can work on in coming seasons I see his flaws as adding dimension to his character, and I'd rather we keep them around for a while. Likewise with Brennan, I've found her journey toward Brennan 2.0 to be amazing, and I can really see them working as a couple now, they're back to where they were in S3 (pre-PitH).

Yes, the wandering is over, the Promised Land is once again in sight, and I think we've managed not to lose an entire generation in the process. [to carry this analagy to its breaking point, Moses{HH} dies(and his body remains hidden to this day) and Joshua{SN} takes over to conquer victoriously...maybe this version plays out better for Moses(depending on how the next 8 go)]

I know I'm an optimist by nature...
There are two kind of people in the world, those that see the glass as half empty, and those that see the glass as half full. I'm the third kind, I want to know what bastard's been drinking out of my glass.

Just spewed my water.

And here you lose me. I'm sorry, I don't care for the line of reasoning that one ought temper one's criticism because the object has "talent" or, as you said earlier Hart has a hit show with 100 eps to his name. We're an equal opportunity society, not a meritocracy, and that sort of elitism rankles me to no end. I don't believe in protected classes, they engender a sense of entitlement and privilege that seems specious to me (something Booth and I have in common), more than that, once we start down that road where do we draw the line? Maybe Hart should only answer to those who've got a hit TV show with 100+ episodes to their names. Hmm, that's a mighty short list, good for him, not so much for us. Yes, the man has talent, he's also got ego, vision, hubris, an imagination, he's a gifted producer/director and even so on the odd occasion he's wrong about things (some might say very wrong). What he's entitled to is the benefit of the doubt, my opinion, and a free cup of coffee at Denny's if I ever run into him. He's not entitled to avoid criticism because he's doubled the show's audience, if anything the more successful he is the more he needs a reality check - if it helps, just imagine me standing behind him during script meetings whispering in his ear "Memore Hart, Letalis Es."

Ok, Gum was on her high horse here and earlier after viewing some ignorant people's tweets and was not necessarily referring to forums like this where we trade POVs(though sometimes she wishes people would consider tact and bestow more grace, but it is a free country). Constructive criticism has its place so long as it is something you would say to their face as well. She still hesitates before pronouncing adverse judgment on anyone, it's just who she is. *clears throat* I do fully realize and recognize that HH is as fallable as the next guy, honest, I warned you a/b my glass view and I tend to give most people the benefit of the doubt...

I agree, and the last week or so I've tempered my criticism accordingly (not because it's not fair, but to be fair, circumstances have changed). I can see where we're going, I think, and now I'm interested in how we get there. If it all works out as I think it will, then we'll all be happy and you can tell everyone you were right all along and they can lump it and be happy. If not, well, I've got plane tickets reserved and Ol' Thunder is in it's case ready to go. (Memore Hart, Vestri Patellae Letalis Es).

RM

Refresh my memory as it's been well over a decade since 7th grade Latin.

As far as the 'ship goes now, if it doesn't go where I want, I'll get on the plane with you and pelt HH with far more than the erasers I wanted to after Eps left his mark! These two are primed and ready for the next great adventure and the writers should be eager to live up to the challenge rather than hiding behind a convienient Hollywood Myth. Good grief, it's not like Booth's going to lose it once he finds that moment of perfect happiness! firedevil

Any chance you & Dawn could open up a writer's slot for me? Despite my inability to despise, I can do a mean smangst when it comes down to it and I promise plenty of gratuitous states of undress for both leads once we switch networks. Name your price.

Gum bounce

(This eons-long hiatus is giving us far too much time to think, you all know this, right?)

Egads! Hubby's been perusing Forensic Files and wants to watch Panhandle next...Love the man but our taste in Bones eps differs (he prefers Hero to Aliens) A monster I'm telling you....

by THX1138 on Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:23 pm

Thnx4theGum wrote:
THX1138 wrote:Wow Gum, you had a lot to say.
*blushes* Um yeah, I kinda got on a roll there.

Yeah, well it's not like I'm never the chatty Kathy myself so I totally understand. Plus, I'll try and be brief this time around. Smile

I think it's clear from the interaction between Booth and Brennan in S3 that they were on a collision course to get together. I imagine HH planned on them becoming something of a couple just before Wannabe, because that was a very, very couple-y episode and with a little tweaking it would have been easy to see Booth and Brennan new to a relationship that they haven't admitted to the FBI (Sweets), still getting used to being a couple, when "BANG" Booth gets shot, PitH happens, and Brennan's trust in Booth is shattered. Taken in that context S4 makes much, much more sense and it explains Brennan's almost schizophrenic personality. I actually made the argument that Booth's increasingly boorish an erratic behaviour in S4 was due to the increasing intercranial pressure of the tumor.
You know, that makes a lot of sense... If there's one major complaint I had for season 4 it was Brennan's "schizophrenic" behavior as you put it. And Booth was downright asinine at times.

Yeah, I don't know if you were a follower of blc's Character Building, but her ruminations on S4 are a perfect reflection of my thoughts on Booth's devolvement during the season, as well as Brennan's own set of fits and starts. Quite telling really.

Ah, PithH was back in the days when I still cared about [H]ouse and the double whammy of those two finales had me reeling for the rest of the week! I also remember my students at the time were buzzing and we spent a good portion of one class period discussing the merits of both shows.(I'm a sub; sue me)

Heh, I subbed once way back when (far enough back that all you needed was 60 hours of college and a sign-off by the superintendent of schools. Yeah, did it once, got a class of 7th grade monsters for six weeks. Let me tell ya' they were happy to see their regular teacher back. Seems I was mean.

We are 100% in agreement. Booth and Brennan have so many issues they need to resolve that resolving the UST is a drop in the damn bucket for them. I've ghosted an entire S6 without UST and seen absolutely no problem keeping Real Life Tension (RLT) and Angst levels elevated to the point that their relationship would be the only anchor point both would have for most of the year. If I can do it I'm sure HH can.
That's the thing, isn't it? We have these two rich characters who go so deep beyond the TV norms that the possibilities are endless and one would think blind monkeys and their typewriters could figure out all that couply B&B could be. Domesticated Brennan is such an oxy-moron it makes me giddy, and once Pops told Brennan to hold Booth, well, yeah, I could build half a season just on THAT.

Yeah, but that's the thing - I can get half a season out of just putting them together and then playing with the fallout - if I can do it you'd think the writers for Bones could, so I don't see any reason to keep them apart anymore. As you've pointed out, they're so well fleshed out that they're like real people - not characters. That gives any writer the advantage because they lend themselves so well to RL drama. And you mention domesticated Brennan, well how about Booth dating Brennan but not living with her? The man is meant for domesticity, but I can see Brennan wanting them to keep their apartments and split time between them, and Booth getting tired of that in a hurry.

Yes, starting with DTitPH they really started pushing the light romantic comedy angle on the show and honestly, it sucked ass. Bones isn't a romantic comedy kind of show, and I've enjoyed a return to the darker episodes this season (even though the overall tone remains somewhat lighter than S1-S3). I think Toughman was the only borderline episode so far this season, and there was enough angst to keep it grounded. Among Season Four episodes, DDotDD is the worst thing I've ever seen - it's just not Bones material. It's so bad, I've excise it from my memory.
Don't hate me, I sneak in DDotDD when I need to laugh....<snip>...We are in agreement that Bones isn't romantic comedy.

Aww, I don't hate on folks individual tastes, no matter how bad or regrettable they are. To each their own, right?

Yeah. I've been rewatching and ConMan still blows me out of the water. It was like they had just enough good to compensate; plus, as you and Drippy have said, we have the best leads on TV.

ConMan rules, my second favorite episode of S4, tops being Mask and coming in a close third is Mayhem.

You've gotta hand it to him that he and the writers have done good in the damage control section thus far and hit the right notes right off the bat. I really don't know what more they could've given us for an opener and the flow has been so much better! More gems than stones works for me.

They've done excellent damage control - I for one am more than mollified now - heck, I'm downright happy with S5 and between Santa, Pudding, and ANatBM? What's not to love?

Funny story. I was a huge CSI fan for a LONG time so when hubby saw the preview for Bones during his football he told me I should catch the pilot b/c it looked right up my alley. I did and for a while I watched both. By season 2 I was all Bones and I've never looked back. Grissom/Sarah was beyond botched but if Tarentino ever offered to guest write/direct for Bones I would never complain...

Sounds like my story - though your hubby and I weren't involved. I swear. Nah, my ex was tired of hearing me complain about CSI constantly, hated the show anyway, and was adamant we watch the Bones pilot because, as she so eloquently put it "ANGEL!" Well half way through it she was gone - she really hates crime procedurals - but I was hooked. Emily just stole my breath away, and S1 Brennan? So hot.

Side note: I would love to play Scrabble with both Hart and Stephen!! It's been years since anyone agreed to play- keeping score- with me. I think it has something to do with my penchant for landing seven-letter words on triple-word score spots...oh, and my go-for-the-jugular-even-after-they-bled-out competitive streak. Even if I got my butt handed to me, I would love it!

First, I'll take you on, anytime, anywhere, just remember this - there's no crying in Scrabble sister, and no mercy either.

Yes, the wandering is over, the Promised Land is once again in sight, and I think we've managed not to lose an entire generation in the process. [to carry this analogy to its breaking point, Moses{HH} dies(and his body remains hidden to this day) and Joshua{SN} takes over to conquer victoriously...maybe this version plays out better for Moses(depending on how the next 8 go)]

Well you weren't kidding about taking that analogy to it's breaking point. Laughing

I agree, btw.

I agree, and the last week or so I've tempered my criticism accordingly (not because it's not fair, but to be fair, circumstances have changed). I can see where we're going, I think, and now I'm interested in how we get there. If it all works out as I think it will, then we'll all be happy and you can tell everyone you were right all along and they can lump it and be happy. If not, well, I've got plane tickets reserved and Ol' Thunder is in it's case ready to go. (Memore Hart, Vestri Patellae Letalis Es).

RM
Refresh my memory as it's been well over a decade since 7th grade Latin.

Ah, Memore Hart, Vestri Patellae Letalis Es, Remember Hart, Your Kneecaps Are Mortal. Just a little encouragement to keep him on the straight and narrow.

Any chance you & Dawn could open up a writer's slot for me? Despite my inability to despise, I can do a mean smangst when it comes down to it and I promise plenty of gratuitous states of undress for both leads once we switch networks. Name your price.

Hmmm, I'm amenable, but I'll let my Queen list her price first while I think of something worthy.

Gum (This eons-long hiatus is giving us far too much time to think, you all know this, right?)

Ya' think? I'm going to have S1-S3 comitted to memory at this rate. Okay, not that that's a bad thing, but you know what I mean.

Egads! Hubby's been perusing Forensic Files and wants to watch Panhandle next...Love the man but our taste in Bones eps differs (he prefers Hero to Aliens) A monster I'm telling you....

Aliens is by far the superior GD ep, I've got time issues with Hero, not to mention Teddy. UGH. Hey, at least you've got him hooked. Now just get him hooked on the GOOD Bones Eps - start with S1, all of them. (I was going to pick a few but, honestly, all of them work for me.)

king

RM

by dawnsfire on Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:22 pm

THX1138 wrote:
Thnx4theGum wrote:Any chance you & Dawn could open up a writer's slot for me? Despite my inability to despise, I can do a mean smangst when it comes down to it and I promise plenty of gratuitous states of undress for both leads once we switch networks. Name your price.
Hmmm, I'm amenable, but I'll let my Queen list her price first while I think of something worthy.

Hmmmm yourself. Maybe I should entertain offers before deciding...? Very Happy

(got a job in my neck of the woods until we make it big in Hollywood? Wink

)

Anyway, so far as I'm concerned, you're on the list of candidates to be considered!

queen

by DripPan on Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:15 pm

I was just catching up on my Twitters and just read this:

Hart Hanson: Believe me, running two shows would be a very high class problem. Plus, BONES is running like a dream with a great team. 20 Feb 2010

Like I said when I first created this thread, this is another sign of 'Changing of the Guards'.

Personally, I think this is a good change but I know some of you have loyalty to HH especially after giving us 3 great seasons of Bones. I will probably also watch 'Guilty' to see how it is.

Drippy

P.S. I don't know how to cut and paste twitters so I just posted what was said. SORRY

by ToZiKa on Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:21 pm

DripPan wrote:I was just catching up on my Twitters and just read this:

Hart Hanson: Believe me, running two shows would be a very high class problem. Plus, BONES is running like a dream with a great team. 20 Feb 2010

Like I said when I first created this thread, this is another sign of 'Changing of the Guards'.

Personally, I think this is a good change but I know some of you have loyalty to HH especially after giving us 3 great seasons of Bones. I will probably also watch 'Guilty' to see how it is.

Drippy

P.S. I don't know how to cut and paste twitters so I just posted what was said. SORRY

I'm sorry
I won't post in here again

by DripPan on Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:09 pm

ToZiKa wrote:
I know you will just ignore me because I have a different opinion
(I'm not sure why I try again and again.....)
anyway
why is this a "sign of 'Changing of the Guards'"?
I mean that could just as well mean that he wouldn't risk what he has with Bones for another show......I know you hate HH and want him gone, but I think you really should consider all options instead of just reading whatever you want to hear into any interview or article you see.
It's always a good idea to at least consider different scenarios......

First thing I never said I hated Hart Hanson so don't put words in my mouth. Disagree what he says, YES!

And I do consider all options and post MY PERSONAL VIEWS as I take EVERYTHING IN and not just take one interview/saying at a time. I started this thread based off alot of information when pieced together gives my version of what is going on.

Take into account such tales/sayings as 'The Wisdom of King Solomon' and 'No one can serve two masters', this is true in all aspects of life.

I don't know if you are trying to defend HH or attacking my personal views. I read everyone's opinion and counter points. Since you didn't offer either one but attack my personal views, this is the response you got.

Drippy

P.S. So, what do you think it means what he typed? (I'm trying to be nice here)

by willgirl on Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:02 pm

I love the discussion that's happening here! Woo! Tons of different opinions and discourse flying about, I love it!

So I thought I would throw my two cents in!

Last season was an epic disaster. I'm sure good things happened but all I can remember are the terrible choices (mainly the shitty characterization). This season is improving but for me personally, the spark has been lost. Not that it still isn't a good show but I feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop!

As someone pointed above, when they try to make it romantic comedy, it becomes disaster. So here's hoping in the future, it will curb that tendency.

As for longevity of the show, I think it has a limited length no matter who is running the show. Bones was never a show I could see continuing for 10 years, especially now that they are pushing the romantic angle. I mean, of course I'm skeptical that they could do the show with them being romantically involved, and if they do, that's great! But even if that happens, I still can't see the show lasting 5 more years.

And having said that, I would prefer quality over longevity as I'm assuming most would.

by DripPan on Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:55 pm

willgirl wrote:I love the discussion that's happening here! Woo! Tons of different opinions and discourse flying about, I love it!

So I thought I would throw my two cents in!

Last season was an epic disaster. I'm sure good things happened but all I can remember are the terrible choices (mainly the shitty characterization). This season is improving but for me personally, the spark has been lost. Not that it still isn't a good show but I feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop!

As someone pointed above, when they try to make it romantic comedy, it becomes disaster. So here's hoping in the future, it will curb that tendency.

As for longevity of the show, I think it has a limited length no matter who is running the show. Bones was never a show I could see continuing for 10 years, especially now that they are pushing the romantic angle. I mean, of course I'm skeptical that they could do the show with them being romantically involved, and if they do, that's great! But even if that happens, I still can't see the show lasting 5 more years.

And having said that, I would prefer quality over longevity as I'm assuming most would.

I love what you wrote here. I think the show is too focused on the B&B relationship vice going with what it first started out to be. It is more character based now than a 50/50 split like it used to be. Add in the soap opera feel of keeping the leads apart vice having a natural progression of their relationship, people tend to turn away.

Personally I think they just need to either get B&B together or have them go their seperate ways so the show can get back to what it used to be.

I do think different from you in that I believe this show can go on for quite a while. There is one stipulation that would make it do this and that is to finally get B&B together because they would alienate the B&B shippers who would quit watching.

This series is written quite intelligently and with great character background stories. We still yet to see alot of episodes that need to be shown such as people who abandon babies in trashcan, child who dies from an alcoholic father, a run away foster care kid who was abused, etc, etc, etc. Take into account that HH has built a family around B&B with incorporating the squints, Max, Sweets and Parker as their village, it would be interesting the disputes that could take place such as Brennan being a step mom and agreements/disagreements with Parker. We also have other debateable issues that this show loves to show different viewpoints such as gun control, what is antipatriosm and abortion.

So, that being said, I can see Bones going on for several more season but only if they get back to the originality of the series and quit the 'will they/won't they' aspect of the show.

Drippy

by treble21 on Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:51 pm

IMO will they/won't they has always been a part of the series, I mean in the pilot that have that super hot gun range scene right off the bat, but yeah it's gotta end eventually.
With regards to HH i think he will always have an input into the storyline and show direction, even if his new show is picked up ( shooting a pilot does not garuntee a pick up in fact most pilots are never seen on air). I read his tweet to mean that he feels lucky to have the "problem" of running 2 shows, but on the plus side of that Bones is running well, so he has the time to devote to something else.

by jjrobinson73 on Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:06 am

k..I am new here...so I am not all in the know as many on here..."THX,Gum, and Drippy." But...I have to agree with Gum. I came into the show a couple of months ago, due to being out of work. So, I have watched the show in various stages....and not from pilot to where it is now. So, I guess that gives me a different perspective.

Am I a 'shipper? I dunno. What turned me onto the show was the UST. Hell, they even have a shot of the UST when they show the actors names on the screen. (Shoot me now, I don't know what you call that!) But when you spend so much time making sure that you point out the UST not just in the show, but in interviews with the characters, it leaves me shaking my head when ppl say they just need to drop it totally. I don't think you can go back 4 full season's and just drop the ST and let them work cases. They have worked for and built up to this moment.

I too was a CSI fan. I still DVR it...but it has gotten past the point of believable. I still watch CSI Miami and NY...those haven't lost the quality for me.

Look....don't drop the UST....b/c to me....it would end like it has for CSI and House for me. Not believable anymore.

Jenn

by THX1138 on Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:17 am

jjrobinson73 wrote:k..I am new here...so I am not all in the know as many on here..."THX,Gum, and Drippy." But...I have to agree with Gum. I came into the show a couple of months ago, due to being out of work. So, I have watched the show in various stages....and not from pilot to where it is now. So, I guess that gives me a different perspective.

First let me just say that I'm honored to even be included in the same breath as Gum, but to be fair you also lumped me in with Drip so that evens things out. (j/k D!) Razz

That said a fresh perspective is always welcome here and never be afraid to voice your opinion. That's why God gave you a voice...or in this case, opposable thumbs.

Am I a 'shipper? I dunno. What turned me onto the show was the UST. Hell, they even have a shot of the UST when they show the actors names on the screen. (Shoot me now, I don't know what you call that!) But when you spend so much time making sure that you point out the UST not just in the show, but in interviews with the characters, it leaves me shaking my head when ppl say they just need to drop it totally. I don't think you can go back 4 full season's and just drop the ST and let them work cases. They have worked for and built up to this moment.

UST is a key part of the show's early success, no one will deny that, and it keeps folks coming back for more - the anticipation of will they/won't they, that said it's a double edged sword. UST is not a silver bullet capable of solving every problem, nor is it a magical balm that will heal every wound. Over reliance on UST makes a show stale, or worse, jump the shark. BONES has come perilously close to jumping the shark in the last year (the last half of S4 was so bad the only think that kept the show from going over was the fact that HH's leather jacket was two sizes too small and shark tanks aren't cheap so they had to scrub the jump). If we go through S5 with the partners still nothing but partners, UST in tact with no resolution in sight? Then the show will have jumped completely IMO.

I too was a CSI fan. I still DVR it...but it has gotten past the point of believable. I still watch CSI Miami and NY...those haven't lost the quality for me.

Look....don't drop the UST....b/c to me....it would end like it has for CSI and House for me. Not believable anymore.

Jenn

I'm with you on the CSI's, though I can't watch CSI Miami either - Horatio's magic sunglasses ruined it for me. Here's the thing about BONES and UST - it simply can't go on forever. It's really all HH's and SN's fault. They made a show with lead characters that were so well written (and so ably acted by DB and ED) that they've become real. We discuss their personality quirks, likes and dislikes, child hood traumas and psychological issues in detail NOT because we're ardent fans, but because the characters constructed for BONES are so real that we CAN discuss them in such detail. In an environment like that, especially one where we've seen real and measurable character growth and adaptation over the last four+ years, keeping them in a holding pattern doesn't keep the show going, it locks it into a stale and unsupportable downward spiral.

You say losing it would make the show end up like CSI and House? I say not losing it would make the show worse than CSI and House, it would become a bad 80's action/comedy at that point. The real problem here is what's more believable - Booth and Brennan can work together for five years, get as close as they are, and NEVER cross that line (maintain UST at all costs) OR Booth and Brennan get as close as they are and finally get together in a loving relationship (with real relationship issues). Handled well the UST transforms into something just as supporting to the show with an indefinite life span, we just have to trust that HH and SN have the skill to handle it accordingly, and the wisdom to know when to move on past the UST.

king

RM

by jjrobinson73 on Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:37 am

I see where you are coming from. I do. Honestly, I think they do need to take it to the next level. B/c reading what you, Gum, and Drippy have said...I can't see them going anywhere else. You get rid of the UST and have them going back to platonic partners, that negates the last 4 1/2 season's aim. But, having them in a holding pattern just keeps the buzzards circling over head and gets old and boring. *Shrugs*. I am by no means HH, SN et al. Heck, I can't even write (though I am an avid reader!) I just can't see them saying no more ST and have them take on a whole different angle. But, then again, I leave it up to the more powerful ppl in the know...namely HH, SN, et al.

Jenn

by queen bess on Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:58 am

I know ya'll are off on a massive kick about whatever, but i feel this needs to be said. I shall say it once and as politely as i can manage after the day i have had.

Not everyone hates The End in the Beginning. In fact some people like it, myself included. We the crazy internet fans (of which i openly admit i am one) do not completely represent the audience of Bones. Can people please STOP with the assumption that we all hate it. I do not like having to come here and DEFEND the show I love and the people who run it. I am here BECAUSE i love the show, i want to celebrate it and enjoy it. IT IS ONLY A TV SHOW!!

I'm not saying HH doesn't need an ego but I believe he let it override the voice of his staff vice listening to them. "The End in the Beginning" was 100% his baby. I'm positive some of his staff said "Don't do it". He even said that if it was a disaster, he would take all the blame for it. It did flop. He did take 100% of the blame. He is still paying for it.