Negativity

I've heard a lot of people complaining that we're all being too negative lately, and there are those who keep trying to put positive spin on everything...and that's good, but...I can't help but think that maybe all the negativity is really a good thing:

I agree that this place has been very negative for a while now...and we are amongst the most devoted fans of this show.

That should say something. After the 4th Finale, it was very divided. Most were ticked that the lovemaking was AU and not real and with the fact that Hart out and out lied about it, but overall we were happy to see them acting as a loving couple even in an alternate state. It made sense, and it made for good controversy.

This year, the outrage is not with Anything Hart promised or didn't promise...it's with the storyline, doing an about face, and not fulfilling it's own promise of progression. It's about a trend developing that feels like apathy, or lack of creativity, or pandering to higher ups and dragging out something that should flow naturally. It's been too long, with too much progression to just pretend it didn't happen and turn an about face. And even if it turns itself around, some magic has died in our hearts. We feel toyed with...

It's kind of like when you were a kid, and someone dangled something in front of you, and everytime you reached for it, they pulled it away and laughed at you...eventually you just got angry and waked away...and even if they handed you that thing...you didn't want it anymore. It pissed you off because it reminds you of the pain of being humiliated and teased over and over, and once you walked away from it...you just don't want it anymore.

This is what the finale felt like... and THAT is why there is so much negativity. Not because we hate the show...or don't care...or are bitter angry people...but because we love the show, we care about it, we nurture it...and we want to protect it! We don't want to reach that point where we say..."Fine, Keep it then...we don't want it anymore"

And we desperately hope that someone is listening...

Very, very, well said, Mamahurley. Very well said. Thank you

mommahurley wrote:
This year, the outrage is not with Anything Hart promised or didn't promise...it's with the storyline, doing an about face, and not fulfilling it's own promise of progression. It's about a trend developing that feels like apathy, or lack of creativity, or pandering to higher ups and dragging out something that should flow naturally. It's been too long, with too much progression to just pretend it didn't happen and turn an about face. And even if it turns itself around, some magic has died in our hearts. We feel toyed with...

It's kind of like when you were a kid, and someone dangled something in front of you, and everytime you reached for it, they pulled it away and laughed at you...eventually you just got angry and waked away...and even if they handed you that thing...you didn't want it anymore. It pissed you off because it reminds you of the pain of being humiliated and teased over and over, and once you walked away from it...you just don't want it anymore.

This is what the finale felt like... and THAT is why there is so much negativity. Not because we hate the show...or don't care...or are bitter angry people...but because we love the show, we care about it, we nurture it...and we want to protect it! We don't want to reach that point where we say..."Fine, Keep it then...we don't want it anymore"

And we desperately hope that someone is listening...

You capture my sentiments. This is why I been down on the show. Like you said, there was a natural flow in the relationship up until the 100 episode. Hart and the folks at Fox made the decision to change direction for whatever reason, and this change was a betrayal of not only the fans but the characters themselves.

Question: How do you put them together naturally? I am one of those that believes Brennan's response in the 100th episode was completely in character. Now I would have liked to see Booth fight more in that episode instead of saying he was "moving on". But he didn't and we got some episodes after the 100th that were difficult to watch. But we can see in the finale that he didn't move on & I saw Brennan progress more towards acknowledging that she loves Booth in her conversation with Angela in the finale...she's questioning what their "relationship" means? This is the first time ever that we have seen her have a conversation about what her relationship could mean. First time ever-this is progression, even if just a little. This is partly why she left for Indonesia...trying to figure out what everything means to her...the job...the relationship.

Now, granted, most people wouldn't take a year long trip to figure this out, but she's not most people, she's Brennan...not you...not me. She's got to figure this out and actually the "year" long absence allows her character to figure things out without viewers having to actually sit thru each episode seeing her question herself. The writers are fastforwarding this year so we are not burdened with episodes wondering where her emotional state of mind is going to be from week to week. We don't have to sit thru the progress. It should already be done once the new season begins. This year long absence is a "forced" progression, but it is progression. So, what does natural progression really mean? How could they have done it, because she wasn't anywhere near emotionally to accepting a relationship with Booth. Nowhere near it.

So, how do the writer's progress her naturally given her emotional state of mind? By progression I mean figuring out what she really wants. She may have told him no in the 100th episode, but I think she didn't expect the question. Her immediate response was no -- I can't change, I can't be the person you think I can be. You need protecting from me. Heck, that's a person who is showing love whether she realizes it or not. So she's got to figure out if she can change, if she can be in a love relationship. She may come back and the answer is no, she can't change. And I for one will be heartbroken. But, hopefully that's not where HH takes us.

@ rexcat - it's an interesting argument, one that gives me slight hope that something good could come out of this mess. However, you're using the same logic as Julia from clickclack, which I find to be flawed. The arguement is that Brennan's reaction was completely in character and therefore the entire thing makes sense. You don't explicitly say "don't look at Booth (which Julia does) but your statement implies he isn't a factor. HE IS. Without really getting into Brennan's intial freakout (it was a bit too much for a woman who in the previous episode said she now believes in love - because of Booth.) Let's look at Booth's reaction to her intial panic. He's knows Brennan, knows when it comes to people, relationships and change, she moves slowly. When he's trying to get her to see something he doesn't try to hammer it in. He'll make a suggestion, let her mull it over, ask questions, etc. WHY, on the biggest shift relationshipwise in her life, would he bombard her with talk of married couples who've been together forty or fifty years? Booth's pushing hardcore, when he KNOWS if you push her she'll cling even more tightly to her position, doesn't make sense - at least not to me. Brennan DOES react in typical Brennan fashion here, but the cause of the reaction makes the whole thing appear to be contrived. Especially given the direction of the entire season up to that point.

Your points about what could happen moving forward from this is helpful. It shows a way that things could get back on track. As for the end of the hundreth, I have come to a place where I can work with it: Brennan panicked and Booth went temporarily insane. Not great writing choices, very forced and contrieved, but it's what's been done. Luckily, ED and DB are amazing actors, or it really would have sucked to watch. :p If that scene gets ED an emmy nod, I might even think it was worth it.

@ rexcat - incidentally, I did write out a progression that would seem more "natural." It's in the spoiler section under "The official 'I don't think season six will suck the most' discussion" (Ever hopeful are we here. )

joybrennan wrote:@ rexcat - it's an interesting argument, one that gives me slight hope that something good could come out of this mess. However, you're using the same logic as Julia from clickclack, which I find to be flawed. The arguement is that Brennan's reaction was completely in character and therefore the entire thing makes sense. You don't explicitly say "don't look at Booth (which Julia does) but your statement implies he isn't a factor. HE IS. Without really getting into Brennan's intial freakout (it was a bit too much for a woman who in the previous episode said she now believes in love - because of Booth.) Let's look at Booth's reaction to her intial panic. He's knows Brennan, knows when it comes to people, relationships and change, she moves slowly. When he's trying to get her to see something he doesn't try to hammer it in. He'll make a suggestion, let her mull it over, ask questions, etc. WHY, on the biggest shift relationshipwise in her life, would he bombard her with talk of married couples who've been together forty or fifty years? Booth's pushing hardcore, when he KNOWS if you push her she'll cling even more tightly to her position, doesn't make sense - at least not to me. Brennan DOES react in typical Brennan fashion here, but the cause of the reaction makes the whole thing appear to be contrived. Especially given the direction of the entire season up to that point.

Your points about what could happen moving forward from this is helpful. It shows a way that things could get back on track. As for the end of the hundreth, I have come to a place where I can work with it: Brennan panicked and Booth went temporarily insane. Not great writing choices, very forced and contrieved, but it's what's been done. Luckily, ED and DB are amazing actors, or it really would have sucked to watch. :p If that scene gets ED an emmy nod, I might even think it was worth it.

I didn't talk about Booth in my post but I agree with you. I didn't understand or like his reaction. I didn't like that he brought the subject up; I felt he was goaded on by Sweets. He should have known better. But, I think I can forgive Booth for "temporarily" going insane because this conversation had to come up at some point between them. Someone had to verbalize that there was something between them. It had never been discussed by either one so that's why I accept what happened.

Even though Brennan said that perhaps Booth was right about the idea of love in the previous episode didn't mean she would immediately jump if the opportunity presented itself w/Booth. She's a slow mover and that's why I wasn't surprised by her reaction. THe thing I hold onto is that she said she couldn't change -- not that she didn't love him. To me, these are two separate issues. She shows she loves him by simply saying she's trying to protect him from herself. Somehow she doesn't understand this part of herself.

And that's why I liked the finale, because she finally acknowledged to Angela that she had questions about what their "partnership" meant and that she was always worried about not being able to save Booth the next time he was in danger. She needed to get away to put things into perspective w/out real life in DC interrupting her.

So when they get back a year later, some issues should be resolved with both of them and we won't have to suffer from one episode to the next to see this progression. Hopefully the resolutions will be what most of us want to see, but you never know.

I still contend that the lovemaking was real.

NatesMama wrote:I still contend that the lovemaking was real.

I agree...this is what also gives me hope for the B&B story. That small scene was set some time in the future that we've yet to fully see.

rexcat wrote:

joybrennan wrote:@ rexcat - it's an interesting argument, one that gives me slight hope that something good could come out of this mess. However, you're using the same logic as Julia from clickclack, which I find to be flawed. The arguement is that Brennan's reaction was completely in character and therefore the entire thing makes sense. You don't explicitly say "don't look at Booth (which Julia does) but your statement implies he isn't a factor. HE IS. Without really getting into Brennan's intial freakout (it was a bit too much for a woman who in the previous episode said she now believes in love - because of Booth.) Let's look at Booth's reaction to her intial panic. He's knows Brennan, knows when it comes to people, relationships and change, she moves slowly. When he's trying to get her to see something he doesn't try to hammer it in. He'll make a suggestion, let her mull it over, ask questions, etc. WHY, on the biggest shift relationshipwise in her life, would he bombard her with talk of married couples who've been together forty or fifty years? Booth's pushing hardcore, when he KNOWS if you push her she'll cling even more tightly to her position, doesn't make sense - at least not to me. Brennan DOES react in typical Brennan fashion here, but the cause of the reaction makes the whole thing appear to be contrived. Especially given the direction of the entire season up to that point.

Your points about what could happen moving forward from this is helpful. It shows a way that things could get back on track. As for the end of the hundreth, I have come to a place where I can work with it: Brennan panicked and Booth went temporarily insane. Not great writing choices, very forced and contrieved, but it's what's been done. Luckily, ED and DB are amazing actors, or it really would have sucked to watch. :p If that scene gets ED an emmy nod, I might even think it was worth it.

I didn't talk about Booth in my post but I agree with you. I didn't understand or like his reaction. I didn't like that he brought the subject up; I felt he was goaded on by Sweets. He should have known better. But, I think I can forgive Booth for "temporarily" going insane because this conversation had to come up at some point between them. Someone had to verbalize that there was something between them. It had never been discussed by either one so that's why I accept what happened.

Even though Brennan said that perhaps Booth was right about the idea of love in the previous episode didn't mean she would immediately jump if the opportunity presented itself w/Booth. She's a slow mover and that's why I wasn't surprised by her reaction. THe thing I hold onto is that she said she couldn't change -- not that she didn't love him. To me, these are two separate issues. She shows she loves him by simply saying she's trying to protect him from herself. Somehow she doesn't understand this part of herself.

And that's why I liked the finale, because she finally acknowledged to Angela that she had questions about what their "partnership" meant and that she was always worried about not being able to save Booth the next time he was in danger. She needed to get away to put things into perspective w/out real life in DC interrupting her.

So when they get back a year later, some issues should be resolved with both of them and we won't have to suffer from one episode to the next to see this progression. Hopefully the resolutions will be what most of us want to see, but you never know.

?

Let's hope...I thought the finale had some nice moments - including the one with with Angela and Brennan. I didn't think they were going to kiss at the end. As far as the B&B stuff, it was ok. I just found the episode very scattered and overloaded, and the case
itself not really a case, just a metaphor about locking yourself away from love. My issue is really with that hundredth ending and its roll in starting the domino effect of the disaster of the last few episodes. Basically, up until the ENDING scene of the hundredth I thought this was a great transitional season. It had a lot of foward momentum in changing the dynamic between B&B from secret desires to moving into a tentative beginning openly acknowledged, romance. I was really feeling great that - unlike most network
shows - Bones was letting the characters evolve naturally into a relationship without the usual nonsense. Boy, was I wrong! .
Anyway, your point about not watching Brennan mull over will she or won't she for a year is a good one. Hopeful they get things back on track quickly.

rexcat wrote:

NatesMama wrote:I still contend that the lovemaking was real.

I agree...this is what also gives me hope for the B&B story. That small scene was set some time in the future that we've yet to fully see.

If it is real, it has to occur in an established relationship. I'm more interested in how they into one and watching it evolve to a place where that scene is possible. We all know the series ends with them together. How it's done, gracefully with organic progression,or just thrown together at the last minute, is really what I'm concerned about.

I'm going to go back and dwell on the 100th for a bit..When we talk about natural progression, we WERE on that track. S4 was building Brennan up to be ready for that relationship with Booth. "One of them is accutely aware of their feelings and struggles with them daily" At the time I thought it was Booth, but I am now convinced it was Brennan. She wanted his baby. Then he was diagnosed with the tumor-aka road block #1. She wrote the book that he dreamed in his coma. BRENNAN wrote about that life they had together. Then S5 starts and we have the drama with the brain scans. I still call BS there. There is no way Booth wasn't in love with Brennan prior to the tumor. Then for Sweets to tell him that? After he was writing a book about their relationship? Road block #2. We then proceed to have Booth pine away-obviously his feelings were real (DUH!) Enter Gordon Gordon, knowing Brennan, and telling Booth to "grow a set". From there, Brennan believes in love and they build and build on that until the 100th. Where it not only came to a screeching halt, it did a complete 360 from where they were headed. Road block #3. Now, I did love the 100th. I still do. And while Brennan's reaction may have been in character-Booth's was not. She freaked. Booth, instead of giving her reasons why they should try, or even calling her out-something like "Come on Bones, you can't tell me you don't have any feelings for me.." He gives her the 30 or 40 or 50 year speech-which freaked her out even more. Then he not only tells her they should be together for 50 years, in the same breath he tells her he is moving on. WTF? Poor writing at it's best. Then they walk away arm in arm like nothing happened I still wonder what went down after that scene. Did they go out for dinner? Awkward, party of 2...Did Brennan call Angela? What about Booth? Followed by the next 6 episodes of awkward, uncomfortable and bordering on painful to watch.

IF they were following natural progression, at the end of the 100th, Brennan would have admitted feelings for Booth, but that she was scared. Where would they go from there? Do they try a romantic relationship/dating/agree to take it slow? Do they tell the squints? Can they remain partners? Going to the reunion-this is what they could really have. Predator-B&B in a secret relationship, enter Catfish openly flirting with Booth, and Hacker making advances on Brennan. Gravedigger-Booth helping Brennan with her fears and nightmares. Season finale-maybe she does need to leave to get a grip. Get a grip on life and what Booth means to her and what she wants from their relationship. Can she handle a serious commitment? They could have kept the finale as it was, but it would have likely ended on a much higher note with most viewers.

Unfortunately in the reality of the show, instead of letting things progress naturally, for every forward step of prgress they take, the writers take them 5 steps back. Natural progression IMO would result in higher ratings, happy viewers and a better show. What they are doing worked for the 1st 3-4 seasons, now it's time to grow a set and let things happen. Here's to hoping we get that in S6 But I'm still not holding my breath.....

Lets face it, HH is a liar on most things, but to his credit,he has repeatedly said that he is not going to get Booth and Brennan together until the very end of the series. On this he isn't lying. He doesn't care about all the bitching some people do and threaten not watch, he has his own timeline on when and how they will get together. I DON'T LIKE IT, but complaining about is not going to change anything. The only other option is not to watch the show.

the beaver1965 wrote:Lets face it, HH is a liar on most things, but to his credit,he has repeatedly said that he is not going to get Booth and Brennan together until the very end of the series. On this he isn't lying. He doesn't care about all the bitching some people do and threaten not watch, he has his own timeline on when and how they will get together. I DON'T LIKE IT, but complaining about is not going to change anything. The only other option is not to watch the show.

I'm not sure that HH has ever actually said this, if he has I'd like to see the link to the interview or comment. I know that he has said that he knows how B/B get together just not when, and I also know that he has said something along the lines of putting them together right now ( which was months ago) wouldn't work. But I don't think he has ever said that it will be the end of the series that they get together, that has been specualtion by the fans based on varying vague comments. I do agree with you that he has his own story to tell, and all the complaining in the world won't change his direction. ( i would like to say though that I have a feeling that Fox is umm how shall I phrase this , stating their opinion rather strongly, that they wait to put B/B together, that's just my opinion though I don't have any real facts to back that up.)

the beaver1965 wrote:Lets face it, HH is a liar on most things, but to his credit,he has repeatedly said that he is not going to get Booth and Brennan together until the very end of the series. On this he isn't lying. He doesn't care about all the bitching some people do and threaten not watch, he has his own timeline on when and how they will get together. I DON'T LIKE IT, but complaining about is not going to change anything. The only other option is not to watch the show.

I don't think he ever specifically said that. Like Trebel, I think its just speculation based on the very vague comments and because people just assume they are going to be like the X Files or JAG couple. I have had heard him say that he knows how B&B get together, he just doesn't say when at the 100th party right before DB smashes a cake in his face and that he is concerned about putting B&B together because people might stop watching, but I don't he has ever specifically said that he is not putting B&B together until the end of the series. (I kind of think he would have put B&B together sooner, but Fox told him to wait, but that's just my opinion)...