In Defense of Brennan

Nnn

SnoopGirl wrote:

bones_fanatic19 wrote:I can't hate Brennan for what happened in the 100th, because if you didn't expect that reaction you obviously don't know her character well enough and Booth should have expected her to knock him back under those circumstances. And now with the finale although the outcome wasn't the best, at least it it set up so that we can get a different response from Brennan when she returns, after as she said 'gets some perspective', so I really don't get how people can hate her, all that she has done should have been expected from the beginning.

I disagree because Booth has proven himself time and time again as a man who can be trusted, loved and respected. He is a good friend and partner. Thhey trust each other with their lives. A few seasons ago, or even last season, I would not have expected Brennan to say yes but this season? She assumes Booth wants her to change when in fact, he loves her just the way she is.
There isn't one reason I can think of that would make her say no to giving their more than friend/partners relationship a CHANCE! She can use the "If it doesn't work it might ruin our friendship/partnership excuse" but she is not thinking of what COULD BE by having it "all" with Booth.
I really hope the writers let her gain some perspective and have her give their relationship a CHANCE!

AMEN TO THAT! However, the way that thing was written, Brennan, had to freak out. All the ways Brennan has changed this season really had set her up to try dating Booth. Then Booth makes that speech about married couples over 40 or 50 years...WAY too big a concept. That's why the the writers had him say it. See, I don't think Brennan doesn't trust Booth, or not know how amazing he is. She's in love with him. The person she doesn't trust is herself. Booth starts talking about forever and Brennan starts thinking of all her faults and issues, and all the ways she might hurt him. Better to not start anything and let him hurt alittle now, because if he gives her his heart and she accidentally drops it.... it would be devastating to them both. "You're the one that needs protecting - from me" is what she says to him.

The entire scene was a total set-up to delay them getting together, because they had developed Brennan to a point where them not dating would be ridiculous. In order for her to turn him down, they had to amp up the stakes. I hate that they did it. Booth's character had to be out of his mind to go there with her, and it was done strictly to set up the split between them.

Which brings me back to your point: let's hope the writer will let these crazy kids move into dating early on in six! Otherwise, I think a large slice of their audience will be moving on.

ok, so i have read through this thread a number of times, but prior to seeing this i never even realised that people were actually hating on Brennan. i was so oblivious to it all. that's not to say that i thought she was so perfect as to do no wrong... sure, i get frustrated by her and Booth numerous times.. but the way i see it is that this is just their characters..and the way they have been designed by the writers. so i really have no choice but to accept this otherwise i will start to hate the show. if we hate one of the leading characters how can we continue to love the show? sure enough there are shows where there is a main character designed to hate, the ones we LOVE to hate. Brennan was not created for this purpose.
this isn't too say i never complain about some things that one or the other do/say (or don't do/say),yesss i will participate in these kinds of discussions and voice my opinion about somthig that annoys me but i think that in most cases the frustrations is equaled out between both B&B characters. it takes two to tango right?
i love both these characters.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I think Brennan said no to Booth before he even said anything about 40 or 50 years. I believe after she rejected him, he said that he had to find somebody who will love for that amount of time.

bugaboo628 wrote:

dreamerktm411 wrote:Yeah, The Con Man in the Meth Lab made me dislike Jared too. But I sort of am okay with him now. Hopefully, getting married and finding love will help to take his ego down a notch.

And, also, I wanted to straighten something out by saying that when I started this topic, I wasn't meaning to take Brennan's side over Booth's. I love both of them. Trust me, if people were hating on Booth, I would defend him in a heart beat. (Booth being my soul mate and all. )

I don't think you implied that you were "taking sides" at all! Your post was well thought out and you did not start hating on Booth (your soulmate) at all.

I really like Jared now; I remember actually clapping when Jared decided to help Brennan and the squints in "The Hero in the Hold". I hope we see more of him in S6.

Heehee. Thanks. I'm glad.

I feel that way about Jared now too. I think he's ended up being a lot better than he was at the beginning of season 4.

the beaver1965 wrote:Please correct me if I am wrong. I think Brennan said no to Booth before he even said anything about 40 or 50 years. I believe after she rejected him, he said that he had to find somebody who will love for that amount of time.

you're right, sort of, the 40,50 years thing was said twice. but she did say no before it was uttered either time.

Transcript:

BOOTH: I'm the gambler. I believe in giving this a chance. (He moves closer to her) Look, I wanna give this a shot.

BRENNAN: You mean us? (he nods) No. The FBI won't let us work together as a couple-

BOOTH: Don't do that. That is no reason why we can't...

(He cuts himself off and kisses her. She kisses him back and then places her hands on his chest and pushes him away.)

BRENNAN: No. No.

BOOTH: Why? Why?

BRENNAN: You-you thought you were protecting me, but you're the one who needs protecting.

BOOTH: Protecting from what?

BRENNAN: From me! I - (she starts to break down) I don't have your kind of open heart.

BOOTH: Just give it a chance..that's all I'm asking..

BRENNAN: No, you said it yourself; the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

BOOTH: Well, then let's go for a different outcome here, alright? Let's just - hear me out, alright? You know when you talk to older couples who, you know, have been in love for 30 or 40 or 50 years, alright, it's always the guy who says "I knew." I knew. Right from the beginning.

BRENNAN: Your evidence is anecdotal.

BOOTH: I'm that guy. Bones, I'm that guy. I know.

BRENNAN: I- I am not a gambler; I'm a scientist. I can't change. I don't know how. I don't know how. (and with that, she breaks Booth's - and her own - heart) Please don't look so sad.

BOOTH: Alright. Okay. (he sighs, and leans back against the wall) You're right. You're right.

BRENNAN: Can we still work together?

BOOTH: (after a slight pause) Yeah.

BRENNAN: Thank you.

BOOTH: But I gotta move on. I gotta find someone who's - who's gonna to love me in 30 years or 40 or 50.

BRENNAN: (softly) I know.

you know what line I find most interesting in the above conversation?

BRENNAN: No, you said it yourself; the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

what is Brennan referring to here? relationships in general? (ie. all of her other relationships have ended so why wouldn't one with Booth end?)

the beaver1965 wrote:Please correct me if I am wrong. I think Brennan said no to Booth before he even said anything about 40 or 50 years. I believe after she rejected him, he said that he had to find somebody who will love for that amount of time.

Partially correct. Brennan goes, "the FBI won't let us -"
Booth "says, that's no reason to -" and then he kisses her.
Brennan pulls away, says no. Booth says why not? Brennan goes, " I'm not like you, I don't have an open heart like you do. You thought I needed protection, but you're the one who needs protecting - from me." THIS is where Booth goes temporarily insane. Brennan is scared. She's just told him, no, she doesn't think that she's good enough for him. Booth's argument to convince her otherwise is to compare his feelings for her to couples that have been married for 40 or 50 years! If Brennan is freaking out over just "giving this a shot" who would use discussing long term married couples to talk her down from the ledge? Booth has talked her off many a ledge - but, like I said, he had a moment of temporary insanity.
I will say this, when I first saw the 100th I was mad at BOTH characterizations. You helped remind me of why. Brennan's reaction, given all that went on in the 5th season is also too strong. A "no, I'm sure I can handle it, or it scares me, there's too much we could lose..." would have been more in line with her character development this season. However, it's also been the season of Brennan being less rational, so having her completely panic and revert shows her being completely irrational and emotional. Then Booth makes the speech like he doesn't know who she is and - instant split. (It's not until after this speech and Brennan's answer that he says he's got to move on.) The 100th was a deliberate U-turn, but it's done. Hopefully they will fix it early in six.

treble21 wrote:you know what line I find most interesting in the above conversation?

BRENNAN: No, you said it yourself; the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

what is Brennan referring to here? relationships in general? (ie. all of her other relationships have ended so why wouldn't one with Booth end?)

treble - do you mean that she's thinking that all of her other relationships have ended (mainly badly) so why should she start another one - that would be insane, knowing that it will end badly also? Are we both thinking that? Because if you are,
I think you are correct.
I have always said that I have my moments with Brennan and have not been a big fan at times. I think you have all made such good points. I think a lot of her bad moments have been utilized to lead the story line towards a better direction. I guess I just don't like that she sticks her foot in her mouth alot and I think 5 years later she should have progressed more than what she has. But that's TV for you and yes, as you all point out, it has been plot driven.
I'm just tired of this pull, push, will, won't, yes, no, maybe plot. I have watched this for 5 years. I have enjoyed them, some seasons, better than others, but I'm exhausted. I just think that there are ways to write their love story and show them as a couple without destroying the show. For some reason the writers or FOX just don't want to go that direction. I'm not sure how many other directions they can run in that will keep me interested. I will wait until S6 and give it a try. I really don't want to have to get my DB fix from Buffy and Angel if S6 goes downhill.

Katherine, very well put. I wonder how many people feel exactly like you do.

treble21 wrote:

the beaver1965 wrote:Please correct me if I am wrong. I think Brennan said no to Booth before he even said anything about 40 or 50 years. I believe after she rejected him, he said that he had to find somebody who will love for that amount of time.

you're right, sort of, the 40,50 years thing was said twice. but she did say no before it was uttered either time.

Transcript:

BOOTH: I'm the gambler. I believe in giving this a chance. (He moves closer to her) Look, I wanna give this a shot.

BRENNAN: You mean us? (he nods) No. The FBI won't let us work together as a couple-

BOOTH: Don't do that. That is no reason why we can't...

(He cuts himself off and kisses her. She kisses him back and then places her hands on his chest and pushes him away.)

BRENNAN: No. No.

BOOTH: Why? Why?

BRENNAN: You-you thought you were protecting me, but you're the one who needs protecting.

BOOTH: Protecting from what?

BRENNAN: From me! I - (she starts to break down) I don't have your kind of open heart.

BOOTH: Just give it a chance..that's all I'm asking..

BRENNAN: No, you said it yourself; the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

BOOTH: Well, then let's go for a different outcome here, alright? Let's just - hear me out, alright? You know when you talk to older couples who, you know, have been in love for 30 or 40 or 50 years, alright, it's always the guy who says "I knew." I knew. Right from the beginning.

BRENNAN: Your evidence is anecdotal.

BOOTH: I'm that guy. Bones, I'm that guy. I know.

BRENNAN: I- I am not a gambler; I'm a scientist. I can't change. I don't know how. I don't know how. (and with that, she breaks Booth's - and her own - heart) Please don't look so sad.

BOOTH: Alright. Okay. (he sighs, and leans back against the wall) You're right. You're right.

BRENNAN: Can we still work together?

BOOTH: (after a slight pause) Yeah.

BRENNAN: Thank you.

BOOTH: But I gotta move on. I gotta find someone who's - who's gonna to love me in 30 years or 40 or 50.

BRENNAN: (softly) I know.

I didn't see this until after I posted. Great job transcribing!
Seeing it laid out like that, I really see Booth's speech as nailing the split in place. Up until then, Brennan is panicking, but she STOPS to listen to what Booth has to say. Booth has made her see many things differently before, maybe he can make her see that it's possible. Instead, Booth's speech solidifies her own fears. He deserves someone who can do that kind of love, and as much as she loves him, she doesn't trust herself to not screw it up like every other male relationship she's had. Stupid writing choice.

U

katharine wrote:

treble21 wrote:you know what line I find most interesting in the above conversation?

BRENNAN: No, you said it yourself; the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

what is Brennan referring to here? relationships in general? (ie. all of her other relationships have ended so why wouldn't one with Booth end?)

treble - do you mean that she's thinking that all of her other relationships have ended (mainly badly) so why should she start another one - that would be insane, knowing that it will end badly also? Are we both thinking that? Because if you are,
I think you are correct.
I have always said that I have my moments with Brennan and have not been a big fan at times. I think you have all made such good points. I think a lot of her bad moments have been utilized to lead the story line towards a better direction. I guess I just don't like that she sticks her foot in her mouth alot and I think 5 years later she should have progressed more than what she has. But that's TV for you and yes, as you all point out, it has been plot driven.
I'm just tired of this pull, push, will, won't, yes, no, maybe plot. I have watched this for 5 years. I have enjoyed them, some seasons, better than others, but I'm exhausted. I just think that there are ways to write their love story and show them as a couple without destroying the show. For some reason the writers or FOX just don't want to go that direction. I'm not sure how many other directions they can run in that will keep me interested. I will wait until S6 and give it a try. I really don't want to have to get my DB fix from Buffy and Angel if S6 goes downhill.

@ Katharine

Hi again, newbie here. I agree that everything she has done has been totally in character. I didn't immediatly understand her actions in the 100th episode. It took me a few days because I felt the pain of rejection that Booth was feeling, but she was completely in character. How could we have expected anything else.

I have a question. I haven't read all the posts here but was there ever a thread that ripped apart the writer's for the changes in character that Brennan has gone thru from S1 to S5? If so, I'd like to read them. I believe the changes are in character for a person that has gone thru the particular losses that she has experienced in her life. I accept them but she was ripped apart in another forum that hate these changes. Just curious.

I guess I just don't like that she sticks her foot in her mouth a lot and I think 5 years later she should have progressed more than what she has.

Agree

[quote="SnoopGirl"]

I guess I just don't like that she sticks her foot in her mouth a lot and I think 5 years later she should have progressed more than what she has.

Not to stick my hand into a mine field here ... but I wonder how much of this lack of progression we could contribute to Hart's portraying Brennan after his friend with Asperger's Syndrome? I know he has said numerous times that if this wasn't a network show that he would've from the beginning came out and said that this is what Brennan has. And from what I've read about the disease, those who suffer from it can learn to cope, but as a general rule they always have it.

I found this on mentalhealthdisorders.com --

"There is no cure and no specific treatment. Asperger syndrome doesn't improve, although experience helps to build up coping skills. Social training, which teaches how to behave in different social situations, is generally more helpful than counselling."


I understand the frustration even if I don't totally agree with all that's been said ... but I just wanted to put this out there and see if anyone else thought if his underlying assumption that Brennan has Asperger's may be playing into Hart's decisions about the character.

[quote="bailey"]

SnoopGirl wrote:

I guess I just don't like that she sticks her foot in her mouth a lot and I think 5 years later she should have progressed more than what she has.

Not to stick my hand into a mine field here ... but I wonder how much of this lack of progression we could contribute to Hart's portraying Brennan after his friend with Asperger's Syndrome? I know he has said numerous times that if this wasn't a network show that he would've from the beginning came out and said that this is what Brennan has. And from what I've read about the disease, those who suffer from it can learn to cope, but as a general rule they always have it.

I found this on mentalhealthdisorders.com --

"There is no cure and no specific treatment. Asperger syndrome doesn't improve, although experience helps to build up coping skills. Social training, which teaches how to behave in different social situations, is generally more helpful than counselling."


I understand the frustration even if I don't totally agree with all that's been said ... but I just wanted to put this out there and see if anyone else thought if his underlying assumption that Brennan has Asperger's may be playing into Hart's decisions about the character.

Very interesting to think about.

Also... Am the only one here who wouldn't want Brennan to change as much? Of course, there are some things she has to learn socially, and I approve of all of the changes so far, but a completely non-socially-awkward Brennan would be no fun. Plus, I think sometimes her "Asperger's" makes her a good person... she pushes the boundaries of ideas people normally take for granted.