In Defense of Brennan

[quote="bailey"]

SnoopGirl wrote:

I guess I just don't like that she sticks her foot in her mouth a lot and I think 5 years later she should have progressed more than what she has.

Not to stick my hand into a mine field here ... but I wonder how much of this lack of progression we could contribute to Hart's portraying Brennan after his friend with Asperger's Syndrome? I know he has said numerous times that if this wasn't a network show that he would've from the beginning came out and said that this is what Brennan has. And from what I've read about the disease, those who suffer from it can learn to cope, but as a general rule they always have it.

I found this on mentalhealthdisorders.com --

"There is no cure and no specific treatment. Asperger syndrome doesn't improve, although experience helps to build up coping skills. Social training, which teaches how to behave in different social situations, is generally more helpful than counselling."


I understand the frustration even if I don't totally agree with all that's been said ... but I just wanted to put this out there and see if anyone else thought if his underlying assumption that Brennan has Asperger's may be playing into Hart's decisions about the character.

please, stick your foot in, no mine field here. I love reading different views. Challenge me.....Someday it might change mine. Ha Ha no pun intended....
I do believe you have a point about it could possibly be an amage (I'm sure I didn't spell that correctly) to his friend.
I think that's probably another one of those subplots that HH likes to hide way under the surface. If they came out and said she has Asperger's then they might be afraid that would take away from some of the terror she faced in her youth as her causes for social awkwardness.
Although, maybe those demons from her past could have been the symptoms that caused the illness, well syndrome I guess is a better term. Don't know enough about it, how it starts, social or genetic?? But a good point. I always wondered too, her parents left her when she was 15 right??? And from what I can remember she had a good life until then. I know that she didn't realize that they were always on the run, but I think they lived an enjoyable life. I'm thinking she didn't say or act like that then? Anyone got any guesses? I know in one episode she said that some days she never spoke - except the Marco Polo thing with Russ. Can't remember, was that after her parents left? I think it was. I guess that experience and the god awful foster relationships just scarred her for life or maybe brought out this syndrome.
Chicken or egg we'll never know.
And I loved it and hated it, her character and it's flaws, pre-100th. I say loved and hated because I loved B&B's catiness, their fights, their picking at each other - you could just cut the sexual tension with a knife. Even when as I said before, she stuck her foot in her mouth.
It's the times that it seemed like she hurt Booth (or other lab members) when she spoke with an almost superiority about herself, those are the times I hate. Well hate is really waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to strong of a word. Let's say, well, I'm just gonna admit it, I like Booth better..........OMG..... Yes, damn it I said it, I like Booth better.
It's probably because he's one hot dreamy hunk of burnin love. When she would say something I could just hear the voices in my head saying - don't say that to my Boothy. No I'm not crazy just tired and foolish this evening.
After 100, it seems to me, no tension, no fighting, no, well, nothing. Just too people too scared to see straight. And I don't blame that on her character specifically, just I think, crappy writing.
I still say TPTB said whough nelly, rain those 2 crazy kids back in, there will be no lovin tonight. Not on my FOX show.
I am hoping upon hope that S6 starts off with a bang and not a whimper.

[quote="katharine"]

bailey wrote:

SnoopGirl wrote:

I guess I just don't like that she sticks her foot in her mouth a lot and I think 5 years later she should have progressed more than what she has.

Not to stick my hand into a mine field here ... but I wonder how much of this lack of progression we could contribute to Hart's portraying Brennan after his friend with Asperger's Syndrome? I know he has said numerous times that if this wasn't a network show that he would've from the beginning came out and said that this is what Brennan has. And from what I've read about the disease, those who suffer from it can learn to cope, but as a general rule they always have it.

I found this on mentalhealthdisorders.com --

"There is no cure and no specific treatment. Asperger syndrome doesn't improve, although experience helps to build up coping skills. Social training, which teaches how to behave in different social situations, is generally more helpful than counselling."


I understand the frustration even if I don't totally agree with all that's been said ... but I just wanted to put this out there and see if anyone else thought if his underlying assumption that Brennan has Asperger's may be playing into Hart's decisions about the character.

please, stick your foot in, no mine field here. I love reading different views. Challenge me.....Someday it might change mine. Ha Ha no pun intended....
I do believe you have a point about it could possibly be an amage (I'm sure I didn't spell that correctly) to his friend.
I think that's probably another one of those subplots that HH likes to hide way under the surface. If they came out and said she has Asperger's then they might be afraid that would take away from some of the terror she faced in her youth as her causes for social awkwardness.
Although, maybe those demons from her past could have been the symptoms that caused the illness, well syndrome I guess is a better term. Don't know enough about it, how it starts, social or genetic?? But a good point. I always wondered too, her parents left her when she was 15 right??? And from what I can remember she had a good life until then. I know that she didn't realize that they were always on the run, but I think they lived an enjoyable life. I'm thinking she didn't say or act like that then? Anyone got any guesses? I know in one episode she said that some days she never spoke - except the Marco Polo thing with Russ. Can't remember, was that after her parents left? I think it was. I guess that experience and the god awful foster relationships just scarred her for life or maybe brought out this syndrome.
Chicken or egg we'll never know.
And I loved it and hated it, her character and it's flaws, pre-100th. I say loved and hated because I loved B&B's catiness, their fights, their picking at each other - you could just cut the sexual tension with a knife. Even when as I said before, she stuck her foot in her mouth.
It's the times that it seemed like she hurt Booth (or other lab members) when she spoke with an almost superiority about herself, those are the times I hate. Well hate is really waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to strong of a word. Let's say, well, I'm just gonna admit it, I like Booth better..........OMG..... Yes, damn it I said it, I like Booth better.
It's probably because he's one hot dreamy hunk of burnin love. When she would say something I could just hear the voices in my head saying - don't say that to my Boothy. No I'm not crazy just tired and foolish this evening.
After 100, it seems to me, no tension, no fighting, no, well, nothing. Just too people too scared to see straight. And I don't blame that on her character specifically, just I think, crappy writing.
I still say TPTB said whough nelly, rain those 2 crazy kids back in, there will be no lovin tonight. Not on my FOX show.
I am hoping upon hope that S6 starts off with a bang and not a whimper.

From all the discussions about her life then, she was like this even in childhood. Her high school classmates knew her as being weird, and she told Angela that when she was in school she sometimes wouldn't talk all day. She's mentioned to Booth several times how she wasn't popular growing up. I think we're supposed to believe that she's had the social awkwardness her entire life, but other traits were brought on by her life experiences (like her need to protect herself.)

Y[quote="dreamerktm411"]

katharine wrote:

bailey wrote:

SnoopGirl wrote:

I guess I just don't like that she sticks her foot in her mouth a lot and I think 5 years later she should have progressed more than what she has.

Not to stick my hand into a mine field here ... but I wonder how much of this lack of progression we could contribute to Hart's portraying Brennan after his friend with Asperger's Syndrome? I know he has said numerous times that if this wasn't a network show that he would've from the beginning came out and said that this is what Brennan has. And from what I've read about the disease, those who suffer from it can learn to cope, but as a general rule they always have it.

I found this on mentalhealthdisorders.com --

"There is no cure and no specific treatment. Asperger syndrome doesn't improve, although experience helps to build up coping skills. Social training, which teaches how to behave in different social situations, is generally more helpful than counselling."


I understand the frustration even if I don't totally agree with all that's been said ... but I just wanted to put this out there and see if anyone else thought if his underlying assumption that Brennan has Asperger's may be playing into Hart's decisions about the character.

please, stick your foot in, no mine field here. I love reading different views. Challenge me.....Someday it might change mine. Ha Ha no pun intended....
I do believe you have a point about it could possibly be an amage (I'm sure I didn't spell that correctly) to his friend.
I think that's probably another one of those subplots that HH likes to hide way under the surface. If they came out and said she has Asperger's then they might be afraid that would take away from some of the terror she faced in her youth as her causes for social awkwardness.
Although, maybe those demons from her past could have been the symptoms that caused the illness, well syndrome I guess is a better term. Don't know enough about it, how it starts, social or genetic?? But a good point. I always wondered too, her parents left her when she was 15 right??? And from what I can remember she had a good life until then. I know that she didn't realize that they were always on the run, but I think they lived an enjoyable life. I'm thinking she didn't say or act like that then? Anyone got any guesses? I know in one episode she said that some days she never spoke - except the Marco Polo thing with Russ. Can't remember, was that after her parents left? I think it was. I guess that experience and the god awful foster relationships just scarred her for life or maybe brought out this syndrome.
Chicken or egg we'll never know.
And I loved it and hated it, her character and it's flaws, pre-100th. I say loved and hated because I loved B&B's catiness, their fights, their picking at each other - you could just cut the sexual tension with a knife. Even when as I said before, she stuck her foot in her mouth.
It's the times that it seemed like she hurt Booth (or other lab members) when she spoke with an almost superiority about herself, those are the times I hate. Well hate is really waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to strong of a word. Let's say, well, I'm just gonna admit it, I like Booth better..........OMG..... Yes, damn it I said it, I like Booth better.
It's probably because he's one hot dreamy hunk of burnin love. When she would say something I could just hear the voices in my head saying - don't say that to my Boothy. No I'm not crazy just tired and foolish this evening.
After 100, it seems to me, no tension, no fighting, no, well, nothing. Just too people too scared to see straight. And I don't blame that on her character specifically, just I think, crappy writing.
I still say TPTB said whough nelly, rain those 2 crazy kids back in, there will be no lovin tonight. Not on my FOX show.
I am hoping upon hope that S6 starts off with a bang and not a whimper.

From all the discussions about her life then, she was like this even in childhood. Her high school classmates knew her as being weird, and she told Angela that when she was in school she sometimes wouldn't talk all day. She's mentioned to Booth several times how she wasn't popular growing up. I think we're supposed to believe that she's had the social awkwardness her entire life, but other traits were brought on by her life experiences (like her need to protect herself.)

Just for the record, asperger's syndrome is a form of autism. You're born with it. People with asperger's are unusually smart, and often have an area of focus - sometimes to the point of obsession. Like people with autism, they find it difficult to relate to people. However, because they do have such superior intelligence, they are aware of being different, and their own isolation. They can be taught social skills etc, but it really is by rote. This is why Brennan is always asking if a certain behavior is ok. If she hasn't encountered it before she really DOESN'T know what she's supposed to do. She trusts Booth and Angela, so she is comfortable asking them to explain things. There's a famous asperger's woman who relates to animals more than people. She invented a way to kill cattle in way that was (ironically) more humane and let them not be terrorized. One of the things she had to teach herself as an adult was to allow herself to be touched. She invented a hugging machine for herself so that she could learn to accept and enjoy that kind of physical pressure on her body. There's a movie called "Adam" about a man with asperger's that gives an amazing portrayal of someone with asperger's. It's really touching.

katharine wrote:

please, stick your foot in, no mine field here. I love reading different views. Challenge me.....Someday it might change mine. Ha Ha no pun intended....
I do believe you have a point about it could possibly be an amage (I'm sure I didn't spell that correctly) to his friend.
I think that's probably another one of those subplots that HH likes to hide way under the surface. If they came out and said she has Asperger's then they might be afraid that would take away from some of the terror she faced in her youth as her causes for social awkwardness.
Although, maybe those demons from her past could have been the symptoms that caused the illness, well syndrome I guess is a better term. Don't know enough about it, how it starts, social or genetic?? But a good point. I always wondered too, her parents left her when she was 15 right??? And from what I can remember she had a good life until then. I know that she didn't realize that they were always on the run, but I think they lived an enjoyable life. I'm thinking she didn't say or act like that then? Anyone got any guesses? I know in one episode she said that some days she never spoke - except the Marco Polo thing with Russ. Can't remember, was that after her parents left? I think it was. I guess that experience and the god awful foster relationships just scarred her for life or maybe brought out this syndrome.
Chicken or egg we'll never know.

It's something you're born with, a form of autism. And, yea, we really don't know much about what Brennan was like pre her parents and Russ leaving ... but I always assumed she was always socially akward. I love the Marco Polo story, and they really don't say how old she was when that happened ... I figure it's from way back in her childhood, something he obviously did a lot since they both remembered it 20-30 yrs later. So Russ knew that she didn't interact well and that he had to protect her in that aspect. And also if you notice whenever Max or Russ see/hear Brennan doing or saying something off the wall, they always seem to be like "yea, that's just Tempe." Like in the Boy with the Answer, with her speech about marriage, Max just smiles because he gets that she doesn't always get it.

I found one article with Hart in which he discusses possibly coming out and labeling Brennan has having Asperger's in season six. (Apparently Parenthood had a storyline this season about a child with the disease, and that's why they had interviewed Hart about the issue.) He said his main fear was not doing justice to real life sufferers, once he comes out and says the word, then everyone will be watching very closely to make sure he keeps it real and honest and that he would want to do it the justice it deserved. Which, really makes sense to me, I can see how it would be a senistive subject.

And I loved it and hated it, her character and it's flaws, pre-100th. I say loved and hated because I loved B&B's catiness, their fights, their picking at each other - you could just cut the sexual tension with a knife. Even when as I said before, she stuck her foot in her mouth.
It's the times that it seemed like she hurt Booth (or other lab members) when she spoke with an almost superiority about herself, those are the times I hate. Well hate is really waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to strong of a word. Let's say, well, I'm just gonna admit it, I like Booth better..........OMG..... Yes, damn it I said it, I like Booth better.
It's probably because he's one hot dreamy hunk of burnin love. When she would say something I could just hear the voices in my head saying - don't say that to my Boothy. No I'm not crazy just tired and foolish this evening.
After 100, it seems to me, no tension, no fighting, no, well, nothing. Just too people too scared to see straight. And I don't blame that on her character specifically, just I think, crappy writing.
I still say TPTB said whough nelly, rain those 2 crazy kids back in, there will be no lovin tonight. Not on my FOX show.
I am hoping upon hope that S6 starts off with a bang and not a whimper.

I agree with you on some of this, I guess our main point of disagreement would be that I personally was still okay with their banter and interaction post 100th episode. I think the chemistry is still there.

I can def see what you're saying about being hurt *for* Booth or Cam or whoever else Brennan is insulting at the moment. I guess I just always assumed that they were okay with it, because they didn't see it as her being mean, but just as her being, "her." I think they all accept Brennan for who she is, and see that deep down she means well and has a big heart, and would never intently hurt anyone. There's a season one or two episode (I'm sorry I can't remember which ep right off) were Brennan says something insenisitve to Angela who is trying to explain a situation to her and Ang just starts talking really fast, not allowing Brennan to get a word in edgewise and says "I love you to pieces" and then something like "I know, I know, you love me too." And Brennan is just standing there with this dumbfounded look on her face. I always thought that said a lot about Brennan's relationship with her friends ... they "get" her, and they love her for her flaws not just despite them.

Maybe HH and Co. going into more of the reasons Brennan is Brennan next season would help dispel some of the hate.

And, dreamer ... I agree with you about not wanting her to change too much. I think a lot of the show's quirky humor comes from Brennan's social akwardness. I understand the need for her to grow (and trust me, I need for her to be with Booth eventually) but I think if they changed her too much, her character would lose a lot of the depth that she has. Brennan is a very developed, deep character, I'd hate to lose that.

I've hightlighted many of the quotes on this thread to add soo agree and others that I would ad huh???? Just think it'd be suffice to say I love Brennan all the questions she asks and they way she makes others go.... oh no she didn't just...
I saw the 100th from her perspective when I saw the "nothing happens unless first a dream" I started screaming out loud at the tv nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo she's not ready don't do it. In my head I was going Dam you and your meddling sweets spend more time with Brennan and less with Booth and you'd see why they weren't ready for his advice about moving on. (fast fwd to laughing at sweets when she turned to sweets in his office "you've known me for 2 years you should know how brilliant I am" I know I've bastardised that up but it'll flick on in your minds)
I saw the panic in ED's face... and I saw that I'm grabbing the moment look in DB's and thought to myself f#@k here we go this roller coasters about to get a bit more bumpy!
Need to add I was also screaming KISS HER YOU FOOL in the dying seconds of the finale, don't get me wrong I see where HH and SN were coming from with their hands saying it all but I could have done with a floatilla of steamboats at that point with the tears streaming down my face!
So I love the characters love the show. Have certainly been pissed at HH and SN many many times but have found re-watching eppisodes allows me to see things I missed before. 5 completed seasons in and I have learnt to have faith as there are many things put in for loyal fans to pick up on (chicken wing towers and clock's etc). I believe we will get our happy ending and I believe it won't be in the final episode ever. How many people are watching when it happens who knows But I'll be there!

Whenever people have the "Booth vs Brennan" discussion, I awlays wonder how can people even watch a show and still hate the main character, when the show is all about the main character? Gosh, people must watch each episode with their eyes and ears closed for nine tenths of the episode.