6x02 ~ The Couple in the Cave - Show Discussion

gordongordonfan wrote:I haven't read all the pages, so this may have already been posted... but one thing I gotta say (for me) is that when Booth tries to "sell" his love for Hannah to Sweets and others,... while SURE he is trying too hard and is trying to convince everyone... for me I have to disagree with the idea that Booth "knows" he loves Brennan still and is just "doing what she wants" and so forth. Does Booth love Brennan- well, duh... sure! But does Booth "KNOW" he still loves Brennan- I actually DON'T think he does right now. I don't think he is self aware at all right now of that fact. It's buried so dam* deep out of self preservation that he won't even open that door a crack right now. (which is only IN character!) So I think he really does THINK he loves Hannah only... he's convinced himself of this (and when he verbalizes it so much he's solidifying it for himself over and over too.) Of course this can only last so long before it cracks. He can only convince himself of this for so long, now that Brennan's back in front of him again.

And I try not to read "too much" into the little wordings, because it could mean something or could just be coincidental writing... but Booth said 2 things I noticed especially... 1- about Hannah: "I couldn't ask her to leave just like she couldn't get me to stay" (To Bones about him 'not leaving' Hannah) ... "ask" and "couldn't get" are 2 very different statements... did Hannah try to get him to stay? and 2- "you're gonna be trouble while your hear aren't you" (to Hannah). ... "while you're hear"... hmm... Is it really a casual "we love each other but we know we're not planning a serious future 'thing', "riding the wave" like Booth's convo w/ sweets. Existing on adrenaline and sex in the 'honeymoon phase' of a relationship? Rebound anyone? Just food for thought. It could be nothing more than a few words that mean nothing... but they kept tapping away at me when I viewed the episode. Little hints to the audience about they way things are... or meaningless?

One thing that I found interesting was that Hannah surprised Booth by coming to DC. Yes they had talked a few times on the phone but she did not mention she was moving to DC and taking a job where she said prior that she would not. Did she think that Booth might try to talk her out of it? Like he did not want to be responsible for changing someones life that much? Sound familiar..remember Sully. Maybe Booth was thinking they would have a permanent fling going on where she would fly in for a few days or week and then go back to her exciting life. I think you may have something in regards to your two instances. I also remember that Booth tried to go back to work two different times in the bedroom scene and she pulled him back by the only way she knew she could.

One last comment I will make. This board is so much more enjoyable to read. I am so tired of the either Brennan or Booth bashing that is going on other boards. Here it seems you get to discussing the characters actions and not just bashing.

bones fan 99 wrote:
Also have to add I think hannahs offer on a girls night was kinda touching I think she's going to acknowledge brennans loss of her best mate, after all booth won't be able to be brennans bestie while he has a #1 girl in the pic that ain't brennan.

Been there where Brennan is. I think Hannah is fishing for info; that she has had her index of suspicion raised, that she recognizes knowledge is power, and she has underestimated Brennan's ability to protect herself.

Just saying, that's my opinion. Can't wait for Brennan to kick some Raghag ass if she tries to get too cute.

Yep I also think it's a "if you can't beat 'em join 'em move" She knows she has to befriend Brennan. She's Booth "best partner ever".

Also to comment about Hannah following Booth. I think Hannah is definitely the pursuer. I think all the women Booth get involved with pursue him. Tess was reading books about the FBI to keep his interest. He told Rebecca that she couldn't keep "showing up" at his work. He also said sleeping together was a mistake. Cam was always the one touching him. Katherine asked him out. Brennan asked if he was seeing anyone and then suggested sex in their initial encounter. But Booth ends up being the pursuer with Brennan. THe only one he really pursues.

lancelot wrote:
Yep I also think it's a "if you can't beat 'em join 'em move" She knows she has to befriend Brennan. She's Booth "best partner ever".

Also to comment about Hannah following Booth. I think Hannah is definitely the pursuer. I think all the women Booth get involved with pursue him. Tess was reading books about the FBI to keep his interest. He told Rebecca that she couldn't keep "showing up" at his work. He also said sleeping together was a mistake. Cam was always the one touching him. Katherine asked him out. Brennan asked if he was seeing anyone and then suggested sex in their initial encounter. But Booth ends up being the pursuer with Brennan. THe only one he really pursues.

Interesting, I never saw him as the prey before but it makes sense. It also makes sense that he can't seal the deal with Brennan although he should really know her best of all.

We haven't really seen Brennan pursue much. She agrees to coffee with "I cut off my brother's head" crazy and makes the first move with Sully, but her other love interests are debatable as to how they evolved. What if she's just not good at pursuing? Does that mean there'll be 30, 40 or 50 more years of this?

[/quote]

Interesting, I never saw him as the prey before but it makes sense. We haven't really seen Brennan pursue much. What if she's just not good at pursuing? Does that mean there'll be 30, 40 or 50 more years of this? ;) [/quote]

IMO, this is uncharted ground for each of them. They are the quintessential alpha male and female, accustomed to being pursued, seemingly teflon coated. Booth makes his conquests with heart; she makes hers with brain. Each has been able to walk away in the past relationships (Tessa, Sully, David, Cam, even Rebecca and Michael) so they never had to feel the pain. Neither has ever had so much to lose but neither knows what to do with the pain. Again, I have to say the acting is superb.

Hey gang! Did anyone else catch the comment Booth made when they were talking to the lady at AA and he stated he was a gambler but said "I haven't laid a bet in years?" Oh poor Booth is so in denial. In EPI 100 he stated that he was the gambler and he had to take the chance... he laid bet and lost.

I have a feeling his through caution to the wind attitude may find him gambling again (which he is with Hannah I think) and Brennan will be the one to rescue him.


I am also anxious to see what it is that ties these two people from different backgrounds together (anomalous relationship) that we have yet to discover as was hinted in the scene at the restaurant with Sweets. Any theories anyone?

marebear wrote:Hey gang! Did anyone else catch the comment Booth made when they were talking to the lady at AA and he stated he was a gambler but said "I haven't laid a bet in years?" Oh poor Booth is so in denial. In EPI 100 he stated that he was the gambler and he had to take the chance... he laid bet and lost.

I have a feeling his through caution to the wind attitude may find him gambling again (which he is with Hannah I think) and Brennan will be the one to rescue him.


I am also anxious to see what it is that ties these two people from different backgrounds together (anomalous relationship) that we have yet to discover as was hinted in the scene at the restaurant with Sweets. Any theories anyone?

Hey marebear, welcome to theABY! Glad you could join us.

First thing I want to say is, gambling, as in laying down bets at the racetrack or in a pool hall or casino, is not the same thing as "taking a gamble" in life. Obviously, some of the same risk is there, but who would fault someone that was recovering from food- or sex-addictions for partaking in the healthy, day-to-day eating or making love?

As for the "anomalous relationship"? I don't see anything anomalous about it. In fact, I'd say that Hannah is pretty much Booth's "type." Don't get me wrong, while I have no problem with Hannah's storyline here, I'm still rooting for B/B, albeit I have to admit that I'm not so much a diehard as I was before. I'm starting to wither on the vine, so to speak. As theories go though, I'm not so sure it isn't the simple "Booth feels a need to get over Brennan" and Hannah seems easy (if only because she is his type.) I think there's also possibility that Booth is thinking that, just maybe, if he could make Brennan jealous, he'd have a chance with her. I can't say as I really think that, but it would explain the way he's flashing her picture around.

DBCrazy wrote:

marebear wrote:Hey gang! Did anyone else catch the comment Booth made when they were talking to the lady at AA and he stated he was a gambler but said "I haven't laid a bet in years?" Oh poor Booth is so in denial. In EPI 100 he stated that he was the gambler and he had to take the chance... he laid bet and lost.

I have a feeling his through caution to the wind attitude may find him gambling again (which he is with Hannah I think) and Brennan will be the one to rescue him.


I am also anxious to see what it is that ties these two people from different backgrounds together (anomalous relationship) that we have yet to discover as was hinted in the scene at the restaurant with Sweets. Any theories anyone?

Hey marebear, welcome to theABY! Glad you could join us.

First thing I want to say is, gambling, as in laying down bets at the racetrack or in a pool hall or casino, is not the same thing as "taking a gamble" in life. Obviously, some of the same risk is there, but who would fault someone that was recovering from food- or sex-addictions for partaking in the healthy, day-to-day eating or making love?

Actually in GA, they do. The approach is more like AA. They don't even flip a coin to see has to wash up the dinner dishes. Booth behavior was unplanned and would be seen as compulsive. Especially since Sweets couched it in terms of gambling. Look up GA on-line, it's not just about the money, it's the behavior behind it. Normal folks, for instance, can invest in the stock market. Even though stock can be a well thought out, carefully planned thing, someone in GA t can't. The temptation for spontaeous risk-taking is there - THAT, is the "high." I think they may be going to that point. I mean, sex outside, under a fig tree, in an active war zone? [/quote]

Interesting. I always thought that move in the 100th was out of character but your saying that Booth hasn't really beat is gambling thing and since he came up the loser he's sinking fast?

It always bothered me that Sweets used the "your a gambler" to prod him. I can't see a therapist doing that.

Also a weird line in the episode is when Hannah says "I got tired of waking up alone". Where on earth were they staying. Somewhere along the line he got out of the army and moved into an apartment with a queen size bed?

lancelot wrote:
Yep I also think it's a "if you can't beat 'em join 'em move" She knows she has to befriend Brennan. She's Booth "best partner ever".

Also to comment about Hannah following Booth. I think Hannah is definitely the pursuer. I think all the women Booth get involved with pursue him. Tess was reading books about the FBI to keep his interest. He told Rebecca that she couldn't keep "showing up" at his work. He also said sleeping together was a mistake. Cam was always the one touching him. Katherine asked him out. Brennan asked if he was seeing anyone and then suggested sex in their initial encounter. But Booth ends up being the pursuer with Brennan. THe only one he really pursues.

This, EXACTLY.

lancelot wrote:Interesting. I always thought that move in the 100th was out of character but your saying that Booth hasn't really beat is gambling thing and since he came up the loser he's sinking fast?

It always bothered me that Sweets used the "your a gambler" to prod him. I can't see a therapist doing that.

Also a weird line in the episode is when Hannah says "I got tired of waking up alone". Where on earth were they staying. Somewhere along the line he got out of the army and moved into an apartment with a queen size bed?

It's me working backwards, but , yeah. See, in recovery programs it doesn't matter how long you've been "sober" a slip can happen at any time. I think the elements came together and pushed that switch. A sober person would not describe themselves as a gambler and them go do a risky, unplanned behavior where the outcome is unsure. Booth as sober would have realized anything described as a gamble was something he needed to keep away from. It's like having aniexty about paying the rent - a gambler goes and buys a lottery ticket hoping to hit so they don't have to feel the aniexty and think about how to deal with the problem. When they lose, they give up and fall into despair, or by another ticket. I'm sure you see the comparison - I'm typing on my phone so don't want to spell it out.

joybrennan wrote:

DBCrazy wrote:

marebear wrote:Hey gang! Did anyone else catch the comment Booth made when they were talking to the lady at AA and he stated he was a gambler but said "I haven't laid a bet in years?" Oh poor Booth is so in denial. In EPI 100 he stated that he was the gambler and he had to take the chance... he laid bet and lost.

I have a feeling his through caution to the wind attitude may find him gambling again (which he is with Hannah I think) and Brennan will be the one to rescue him.


I am also anxious to see what it is that ties these two people from different backgrounds together (anomalous relationship) that we have yet to discover as was hinted in the scene at the restaurant with Sweets. Any theories anyone?

Hey marebear, welcome to theABY! Glad you could join us.

First thing I want to say is, gambling, as in laying down bets at the racetrack or in a pool hall or casino, is not the same thing as "taking a gamble" in life. Obviously, some of the same risk is there, but who would fault someone that was recovering from food- or sex-addictions for partaking in the healthy, day-to-day eating or making love?

Actually in GA, they do. The approach is more like AA. They don't even flip a coin to see has to wash up the dinner dishes. Booth behavior was unplanned and would be seen as compulsive. Especially since Sweets couched it in terms of gambling. Look up GA on-line, it's not just about the money, it's the behavior behind it. Normal folks, for instance, can invest in the stock market. Even though stock can be a well thought out, carefully planned thing, someone in GA t can't. The temptation for spontaeous risk-taking is there - THAT, is the "high." I think they may be going to that point. I mean, sex outside, under a fig tree, in an active war zone?

Okay, I admit that I don't know the details of Gamblers Anonymous, but, life is a risk. I get the not flipping for who does the dishes. And I also understand that he was taking a risk, as I said, but just like a food addict has to learn how to eat in the day-to-day world, so does a gambler have to learn how to take risks. Maybe Booth's backing up from this for forever did have something to do with his GA training, but at some point you have to go for what you want. Don't you? You can't just give up and go home, alone, all the time. I agree with lancelot in that it was unbelievable for Sweets to use the gambler analogy on Booth in that situation. On a friend level I can excuse it because, good or bad it's part of Booth's makeup, but on a professional level it was unthinkable.

DBCrazy wrote:
First thing I want to say is, gambling, as in laying down bets at the racetrack or in a pool hall or casino, is not the same thing as "taking a gamble" in life. Obviously, some of the same risk is there, but who would fault someone that was recovering from food- or sex-addictions for partaking in the healthy, day-to-day eating or making love?

Actually in GA, they do. The approach is more like AA. They don't even flip a coin to see has to wash up the dinner dishes. Booth behavior was unplanned and would be seen as compulsive. Especially since Sweets couched it in terms of gambling. Look up GA on-line, it's not just about the money, it's the behavior behind it. Normal folks, for instance, can invest in the stock market. Even though stock can be a well thought out, carefully planned thing, someone in GA t can't. The temptation for spontaeous risk-taking is there - THAT, is the "high." I think they may be going to that point. I mean, sex outside, under a fig tree, in an active war zone?

Okay, I admit that I don't know the details of Gamblers Anonymous, but, life is a risk. I get the not flipping for who does the dishes. And I also understand that he was taking a risk, as I said, but just like a food addict has to learn how to eat in the day-to-day world, so does a gambler have to learn how to take risks. Maybe Booth's backing up from this for forever did have something to do with his GA training, but at some point you have to go for what you want. Don't you? You can't just give up and go home, alone, all the time. I agree with lancelot in that it was unbelievable for Sweets to use the gambler analogy on Booth in that situation. On a friend level I can excuse it because, good or bad it's part of Booth's makeup, but on a professional level it was unthinkable.

Booth's backing away is actually in-line with his addiction. I cut and pasted this from my other answer, but I can spell it out now. A sober person would not describe themselves as a gambler and them go do a risky, unplanned behavior where the outcome is unsure. Booth as sober would have realized anything described as a gamble was something he needed to keep away from. It's like having anxiety about paying the rent - a gambler goes and buys a lottery ticket hoping to hit so they don't have to feel the anxiety and think about how to deal with the problem. When they lose, they give up and fall into despair, or by another ticket. Booth couldn't deal with the anxiety of wanting Brennan. His "let's give this a shot approach" was his lottery ticket. His reaction - he gave up. That anxiety about Brennan is still there though, the journalist is his new ticket to quell the anxiety.

For clarity's sake, I copied a couple of things from the Gamblers Anonymous website, I'm not making this stuff up:

Compulsive gamblers who have joined Gamblers Anonymous tell us that, though their gambling binges were periodic, the intervals between were not periods of constructive thinking. Symptomatic of these periods were nervousness, irritability, frustration, indecision and a continued breakdown in personal relationships.

GAMBLING , for the compulsive gambler is defined as follows : Any betting or wagering, for self or others, whether for money or not, no matter how slight or insignificant, where the outcome is uncertain or depends upon chance or 'skill' constitutes gambling.

When it comes to gambling, we have known many problem gamblers who could abstain for long stretches, but caught off guard and under the right set of circumstances, they started gambling without thought of the consequences.

The first bet to a problem gambler is like the first small drink to an alcoholic. Sooner or later he or she falls back into the same old destructive pattern.

Asking Brennan the way he did was his first small drink...

joybrennan, okay, I see what you're saying and I can buy your analogy. But where does that leave Booth? Even if he'd have planned his proposal to Brennan with attention to every detail, it would have still been a gamble. So it seems he can't win for losing!

DBCrazy wrote:joybrennan, okay, I see what you're saying and I can buy your analogy. But where does that leave Booth? Even if he'd have planned his proposal to Brennan with attention to every detail, it would have still been a gamble. So it seems he can't win for losing!

The keys are compulsive and uncertain. BOOTH wasn't certain about Brennan. When he is certain, he will take the time to do the groundwork to have Brennan. Not saying Brennan wouls fall into his arms or not probably STILL need time away to think as she got more and more overwhelmed, but Booth would still have been Booth. Life is a risk, you are correct. Gambling. is, ironically, a way to fatasize there are none. Like, "I don't have to worry about he rent because I'm going to win the lottery." No, you look at the situation, look for varios ways to earn the money, and you talk to your landlord to let them know what's going on and make a payment
arrangement. You make a descion to do what needs to be done for the outcome you want. Does it mean you won't fail? No, but you've faced the situation honestly and taken real actions towards what you want. You aren't betting on a fantasy of what you would LIKE to happen to fix everyrhing. Booth knows Brennan. One of the issues discussed this summer was Booth acting like he'd never met her. He had a fantasy of how it would go that had nothing to do with her.